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About Cadsuane... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 06/12/2011 05:22:39 PM
Rand and Egwene are hardly what you'd call "close friends".
Shoo. This is my last real WoT pleasure. Let's not change the game at this late date. Facts don't matter. Fionwe1987 and I will rise to the bait, no matter what.


Who's missing from the list isn't Egwene, it's Cadsuane, a reluctant inclusion of Cadsuane as, even though Rand doesn't like her or her methods, post-Epiphany Rand is fully aware of how instrumental she was. It's her who made him aware of all his problems that his solved at the moment of his epiphany. He recognized this elsewhere, and it might be because RJ isn't at the helm that Rand didn't include Cadsuane too.


Except for the reason you give, my thinking on her omission was that she failed. When you get right down to it, she did her best, but only succeeded in alienating him further. I'm not criticizing her, merely suggesting that she is mortal and fallible and there is the possibility that she may have undertaken a task that was beyond her ability (wow, I seem to be saying stuff like that a lot these days). Rand's point was, I believe, that he was able to come back to himself because of the grounding he had to work with. "I was better brought up this time" strongly implies as much, and does not account for the influence of a woman he met earlier in this year. Cadsuane herself noted in tGS that Rand already had a good moral grounding when she observes that he reacts to his sudden rise to power better than most people in his position do. As for the presence of his girlfriends on the list, when push comes to shove, moral behavior is all about how you treat or relate to other people, and the three women have all been instrumental in how he deals with the people around him at the time. Elayne helps him deal with the nobility of Tear, Aviendha with the Aiel and Min gets him out of his funk (that was not entirely about "raping" her - he was already in a bad place thanks to his LTT issues and captivity, and that caused him to view his actions in a negative light) and adjusts his perspective to once more be receptive to bringing people to his cause, as opposed to shoving them away.
I wonder if awareness of the bond would also have played a bigger role in Rand's realization had RJ written the book. Sanderson really seemed to struggle with that in tGS - in scenes where previously Rand and Min had used the bond as a kind of sixth sense to perceive one another with in their scenes together in WH, CoT & KoD, they never seemed aware of it until they were apart in tGS. I can't help but think that in RJ's words, at the nadir of his rage on Dragonmount, there would have been that little unaltering, unwavering speck of emotion through the bond that he couldn't deny no matter his rage or hardness.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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It's good to be right. Especially when you see Rand list his good influences in ToM - 30/11/2011 03:24:55 PM 2212 Views
This is clearly a Sandersonism... - 01/12/2011 02:35:39 AM 1025 Views
Of course it is... - 01/12/2011 11:03:49 AM 958 Views
Re: Of course it is... - 02/12/2011 06:16:01 PM 1053 Views
Can't think of a single time that Egwene was a good friend to Rand *NM* - 01/12/2011 07:16:39 AM 536 Views
TGH, TFoH and TDR. *NM* - 01/12/2011 01:23:28 PM 463 Views
Bah, bull and pffft. - 01/12/2011 03:26:07 PM 1110 Views
Re: It's good to be right. Especially when you see Rand list his good influences in ToM - 01/12/2011 01:26:49 PM 1014 Views
In tGH he was still immature and reflexively giving props to his love interest *NM* - 01/12/2011 03:04:17 PM 562 Views
Re: In tGH he was still immature and reflexively giving props to his love interest - 03/12/2011 02:39:47 AM 964 Views
... - 03/12/2011 09:13:13 AM 979 Views
God, I can't stand Rand fanboys/girls. Some facts, please. - 02/12/2011 06:12:14 PM 1536 Views
I can't stand people who don't know stuff but act like they do. - 04/12/2011 03:23:47 AM 912 Views
Self-contradiction, much? - 04/12/2011 08:20:00 AM 992 Views
No, just dealing with a fickle hypocrite. - 05/12/2011 04:27:32 AM 1067 Views
Re: No, just dealing with a fickle hypocrite. - 05/12/2011 10:56:17 AM 941 Views
Except somehow, Egwene always ends up opposing him on the wrong stuff - 05/12/2011 03:55:50 PM 1128 Views
Of course there's the fact that by most people's standards.... - 06/12/2011 12:31:13 PM 1108 Views
About Cadsuane... - 06/12/2011 05:22:39 PM 1164 Views
Go Egwene! - 09/12/2011 07:47:47 AM 954 Views

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