Re: I don't think it's an illusion - the Aiel & the gholam both went DOWN
DomA Send a noteboard - 27/11/2011 10:11:12 PM
I'd guess the place works on similar mechanics as Tel'aran'rhiod. The first time Rand used it (although that was a fairly Power-incoherent passage of The Eye of the World) he made a staircase. Then against Asmodean, he was again running across steps, until he saw Asmodean just use a platform and decided to imitate him. Channelers have also demonstrated that they can change the appearance of their platform.
So I'd guess that people fall because they believe they'll fall. And once they're beyond any kind of landmark, it ceases to matter anyway. They might have changed the direction of their fall, or stopped falling at all, without a relative fixed point, it's impossible to discern.
So I'd guess that people fall because they believe they'll fall. And once they're beyond any kind of landmark, it ceases to matter anyway. They might have changed the direction of their fall, or stopped falling at all, without a relative fixed point, it's impossible to discern.
This is not contradicted by the text, though I thought I read somewhere that only the maker of the gateway can actually create a platform or mess with it. That might mean that everyone else is powerless to alter their situations.
And I agree with your explanation about falling. I would assume you don't really fall, the illusion of falling ceases once you stop to think you're falling, and you're just kind of suspended in the void.
As noted in my subject line, people saw the victims drop, so they did go down. Maybe because someone believed that's how it works, but it still happened.
A channelller who is momentarily distracted and falls can probably stop the fall by creating a new platform and concentrating again on the destination. There's likely no way out of there for a non-channeller (for the same reasons there seems to be no way to enter TAR in the flesh except through a gateway made with the power, but that's not fully certain, I guess. I would still assume if a non-channeller "falls", he/she eventually dies of thirst rather than ever hitting any bottom.
I wonder why the platforms are even needed if any of this is true. There has to be a sort of spatial coherence to it all, because you have to move through it to get to your destination (and that is fixed after all - since know your destination point well is the sine qua non of Skimming), so it would seem that not moving toward your destination, or going off the direct route to your end point results in a loss of the ability to transverse the skimming place. Once you stop moving in collusion with the one who picked the destination (i.e. "fall" from the platform), you've stepped outside the limitations under which a person can travel through that dimension, like cutting yourself loose from the shore and becoming adrift. Otherwise it makes no sense that one person must know a destination in order to open a gateway to a place between his location and that destination, but then pass through that place merely by an act of will, without regard to his destination, or that others can pass through the gateway that required knowledge of a specific destination to make, but then do their own thing once in the interim place. The Aiel fell for the same reason Moses was punished for striking the rock twice or Peter sunk when he tried to walk on water - in all three cases, the result they hoped to obtain came entirely through another agency. Peter stood on the surface because God held him up and Moses got stuff to come out of the rock because God made it happen and the Aiel was heading to Caemlyn because Rand created a skimming route to Caemlyn and established the protocols of the transportation. When Peter stopped paying attention to God and concentrated on his position and actions, he was attempting to work his own will which was insufficient to keep his weight atop the water. When the Aielman moved out of the range of Rand's delineated transport area, he violated the parameters of the phenomenon and fell because there was nothing to hold him to the route or voyage or whatever (I can't figure out an appropriate noun to articulate the concept of a collective partial violation of space & time under the will of a single individual). Maybe the fall is just the illusion to the OTHER people, and from his perspective, he lost his footing, and suddenly the platform zoomed away (in whatever direction) really fast while he stayed still, or the gholam perceived Mat & the gateway shooting out of sight.
That's why I think this is a layer of some kind that "surrounds" the pattern (a metaphor, obviously, as the Pattern is neither a kind of cosmic fabric nor Creation a giant sphere). When I say it's "an illusion", what I mean is that the physical laws may be determined by the psyche of the people in the there. You fall because you and the people who witness it think you fall, as the gravity laws in "reality" programs you to think that way. I think that dimension is something like unformed, potential reality. It's not been shaped in to anything, and shaping it into a reality would require a mind with the potential of the Creator's, so quite beyond human capabilities. I think the "travel" in space in there is quite possibly an "illusion" as well. I think it's pretty much a stretched out version of Travelling. In Travelling you get attuned to your location and form a precise or imprecise mental image of your destination, and your gateway bridges the two. In skimming, the process is stretched out. A gateway opens a your departure point and your mind guide you from there to your destination, which a human mind perceives as distance between point A and B so you "travel" more or less fast between the "two" gateways. How long it takes is probably determined largely by perception of how fast you're going and how distant is your destination. I think if someone imagined they could travel fast enough to bridge the distance between A and B in a blink, Skimming might become only superficially slower than Travelling. It's just terribly difficult/unnatural to visualize that if you're in Cairhien you can be a stone's throw from Caemlyn. In other words, I don't think space as such exists in the Skimming dimension, I think it's also created by the mental perceptions of space and time of those who skim.
Falling in that skimming place...
24/11/2011 06:27:49 PM
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If I were to speculate...
24/11/2011 08:29:09 PM
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I agree
24/11/2011 08:54:04 PM
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I don't think it's an illusion - the Aiel & the gholam both went DOWN
26/11/2011 09:33:40 PM
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Re: I don't think it's an illusion - the Aiel & the gholam both went DOWN
27/11/2011 10:11:12 PM
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Alternative theory - maybe they don't fall. Maybe the platform rises away from them.
26/11/2011 09:39:37 PM
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Good idea, but unlikely.
27/11/2011 02:20:24 AM
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Having to include that caveat shows you know your argument sucks
27/11/2011 05:28:29 AM
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The effects of being in zero gravity are obvious.
07/12/2011 01:17:05 AM
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I think you missed the point he made...
10/12/2011 04:33:40 PM
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I do just enjoy it, but this was the point of this thread. Also...
11/12/2011 03:45:51 PM
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