I don't truly claim Dark Rand was a bad guy per se, let alone a forsaken. It was just a vehicle to introduce my favorite awesome moments that the real forsaken couldn't do.
I agree with you that the flaws of ToM are directly a result of TGS. I liked TGS a lot less after I read ToM. But remembering Dark Rand reminded me that I enjoyed TGS much more than I thought I would have when I first read it. It wasn't until I read ToM that TGS was ruined for me to some extent.
I disagree that Lanfear's actions at the docks make sense given the state she was in. For me it boils down to the fact that RJ won't kill any of the main good guys, which requires some unrealistic behavior on the part of the most powerful bad guys, as well as a heaping portion of the "pattern" forcing things to happen. Sometimes I don't want to see another good guy take a bullet to the shoulder or the thigh. Sometimes it just feels like bad writing. It seems more likely to me that Lanfear would have been an absolute angel of death in that circumstance. Lan getting knocked unconscious was perhaps the worst part of that scene for me. You can always cook up some possible reason for why things make sense. Sometimes it detracts from the story.
And by the way, I don't claim my scenario of Lanfear killing Eqwene was likely, you would have to change the entire setup of the scene (as well as the serious obviously). I only give it as an example of something that could have been awesomely bad. This series would be so much more fun if I hated and feared the forsaken. Of course killing Egwene may have evoked gratitude rather than hatred in me.
As for the duel with Ishamael, I guess I don't like that you have to imagine some bizarre circumstances for his actions to make sense. Maybe they were at a cross section of TAR and the real world? Okay, that is a possibility. Yet they fought in plain sight of everybody, people were channeling all around them, Ishamael plainly feared the steel of Rand's sword, it seems they were there in the flesh. It seems Ishy could have channeled. And if they were there in TAR, then why not do any number of TAR things that Rand again would have no idea how to counter.
What you say is a possibility, I find it unsatisfactory. I think sometimes RJ just wrote things poorly. I don't assume there is always a great and coherent reason for what happens, even if someone can think up a possible reason for it. Sometimes RJ wanted certain things to happen, and it wasn't always coherent IMO. In a fantasy world you can always come up with a reason to explain things.
The quarterstaff being more powerful than the sword in Randland is beside the point. Rand's knowlege of channeling is almost zero at this point in the series. I think Ishamael was there in body and could have channeled. So yes, to me trying to physically duel with Rand was stupid as it gave Rand his best chance to win, other than the aforementioned sheep shearing contest in which the loser dies.
You may be fine with those scenes. I'm not, they annoy me.
I realize that RJ made his forsaken sackless idiots to some extent, I just wish he hadn't. I think evil people are often courageous and formidible. And such evil people make much better villains (in stories). I don't like villains in real life.
A funny article linked below reminds me little of RJ's writing.
I agree with you that the flaws of ToM are directly a result of TGS. I liked TGS a lot less after I read ToM. But remembering Dark Rand reminded me that I enjoyed TGS much more than I thought I would have when I first read it. It wasn't until I read ToM that TGS was ruined for me to some extent.
I disagree that Lanfear's actions at the docks make sense given the state she was in. For me it boils down to the fact that RJ won't kill any of the main good guys, which requires some unrealistic behavior on the part of the most powerful bad guys, as well as a heaping portion of the "pattern" forcing things to happen. Sometimes I don't want to see another good guy take a bullet to the shoulder or the thigh. Sometimes it just feels like bad writing. It seems more likely to me that Lanfear would have been an absolute angel of death in that circumstance. Lan getting knocked unconscious was perhaps the worst part of that scene for me. You can always cook up some possible reason for why things make sense. Sometimes it detracts from the story.
And by the way, I don't claim my scenario of Lanfear killing Eqwene was likely, you would have to change the entire setup of the scene (as well as the serious obviously). I only give it as an example of something that could have been awesomely bad. This series would be so much more fun if I hated and feared the forsaken. Of course killing Egwene may have evoked gratitude rather than hatred in me.
As for the duel with Ishamael, I guess I don't like that you have to imagine some bizarre circumstances for his actions to make sense. Maybe they were at a cross section of TAR and the real world? Okay, that is a possibility. Yet they fought in plain sight of everybody, people were channeling all around them, Ishamael plainly feared the steel of Rand's sword, it seems they were there in the flesh. It seems Ishy could have channeled. And if they were there in TAR, then why not do any number of TAR things that Rand again would have no idea how to counter.
What you say is a possibility, I find it unsatisfactory. I think sometimes RJ just wrote things poorly. I don't assume there is always a great and coherent reason for what happens, even if someone can think up a possible reason for it. Sometimes RJ wanted certain things to happen, and it wasn't always coherent IMO. In a fantasy world you can always come up with a reason to explain things.
The quarterstaff being more powerful than the sword in Randland is beside the point. Rand's knowlege of channeling is almost zero at this point in the series. I think Ishamael was there in body and could have channeled. So yes, to me trying to physically duel with Rand was stupid as it gave Rand his best chance to win, other than the aforementioned sheep shearing contest in which the loser dies.
You may be fine with those scenes. I'm not, they annoy me.
I realize that RJ made his forsaken sackless idiots to some extent, I just wish he hadn't. I think evil people are often courageous and formidible. And such evil people make much better villains (in stories). I don't like villains in real life.
A funny article linked below reminds me little of RJ's writing.
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
This message last edited by Narg on 22/11/2011 at 06:45:17 PM
Cool Forsaken moments
21/11/2011 02:49:46 PM
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Moggy torturing Nynaeve, getting shot, and afterwards squashing Liandrin (Moggy's my favourite..) *NM*
21/11/2011 03:49:50 PM
- 357 Views
That's an oxymoron
21/11/2011 06:41:34 PM
- 834 Views
If you disagree with his choice moments then...
21/11/2011 07:48:04 PM
- 802 Views
My top 5 are all different from your list...
21/11/2011 08:51:43 PM
- 1360 Views
Except...
29/11/2011 06:08:37 AM
- 691 Views
My point is that the ILLUSION of Forsaken greatness reflected the REALITY that should have been
29/11/2011 01:58:21 PM
- 713 Views
All the awesomest moments come from the same bad guy.
21/11/2011 09:20:05 PM
- 920 Views
You sort of have a point, that ties in to why the Forsaken suck
22/11/2011 03:37:14 PM
- 726 Views
Some thoughts.
22/11/2011 06:30:04 PM
- 921 Views
Re: Some thoughts.
22/11/2011 09:11:50 PM
- 671 Views
Re: Some thoughts.
22/11/2011 11:09:28 PM
- 910 Views
Any Cadsuane moment. *NM*
24/11/2011 04:45:59 AM
- 374 Views
Oh please! My mother is more evil by 10 A.M. than Cadsuane gets up to all day
24/11/2011 11:05:02 AM
- 594 Views
Re: Oh please! My mother is more evil by 10 A.M. than Cadsuane gets up to all day
30/11/2011 05:29:09 AM
- 685 Views