Wheel of Time Messageboard: Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... by fionwe1987

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Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 05:34:31 PM

Yeah but having a plan to kill the DO probably has some aspect that can be applied to a plan to trap him. This is all supposition though.

He didn't have a plan. He wanted to kill the DO, but that's different from having a plan for it.

It shows he's missing important information for using Callandor. It also doesn't show that he literally intends to have this meeting then break the seals straight away. That is inferred from what e told Egwene which is deliberate misleading IMO. If not then I agree that his plan is very risky but just waiting and hoping things sort themselves out is not a better alternative.

Well, he could be misleading about immediately breaking the Seals, but I doubt it. He says he plans to meet people at Merillor and then go fight the DO. So it doesn't seem that he sees much of a waiting period in between. As for waiting for things to sort themselves out... that is what Rand wants to do, but with the Seals broken, which is just stupid.

I think it would be pretty in character, but then Egwene annoys me. Not that she hasn't done good things but she has made some very illogical decisions without Rand's excuse of madness. Plus any plan anyone comes up with cannot be guaranteed to succeed anyway- nobody knows what the DO is, he's always won in this cycle before, it's too much of a risk to try the same thing as last time but with Saidar and Saidin in case both get tainted. The only people with more knowledge of the DO that SuperRand are the FS and so only if Lanfear is genuinely going to switch over can trustworthy (if that) new useful information realistically come. It's all very well saying he needs to have everything perfectly planned out, but that can't happen. So should he wait forever for a plan that will never e finished or try and have some advantage of any kind? He's going to be punished next book for waiting so long as it is. Either he doesn't know enough about the bore and needs to find out more- which would require Lanfear or going to Shayol Gul and I suggest he should only do that once ever considering what it is!- or LTT already let's him know what he needs to know. There aren't many other places he can get useful information from! This idea of a perfect plan doesnt exist- every AS in the age of legends together couldn't come up with it.

Let's keep our likes and dislikes of characters out of it, okay? Because however irritating you find her, I think you can agree that Egwene always uses all the advantages she has. Her not doing so is very out of character.

And yes, Rand knows more about the Bore than most others. But there may well be some Brown somewhere with some crucial piece of knowledge. But that is immaterial in the fact of what Egwene's Dream seems to mean. That is a piece of information no one seems to have except Egwene. It is new knowledge about the Bore that is exclusively Egwene's. Why shouldn't that be considered?

How do you know? You don't know something is a clue until the event it is a clue for is revealed. I certainly didn't expect the Cleansing from the clues we were given, though I knew Saidin would have to be purified at some point. I didn't expect Rand to balefire Graendel's palace, or (until very late) trick and trap Asmodean. If anything this is Rand's MO when he's actually planning. He doesn't share his plans with his loved ones until the last minute, partially because they are dangerous and he knows they won't like the high risk to him.

I know because I saw both the Cleansing and the trap for Asmodean from a mile off. The plan at Natrin's Barrow was unpredictable, but that wasn't something that had many chapters before where clues could be placed. Sealing the Bore is more like the plan to Cleanse Saidin, and there have been hints about it. For example, everyone would have predicted Rand's idea to break the Seals. Its the when of it that is an issue. I don't really see Egwene objecting if Rand says he's going to break the Seals right before he commences re-sealing.

I still think Rand will use Callandor in a circle to draw in the entire DO as the TP then try and seal it inside himself and throw himself through the bore, maybe as a corpse, using the Pattern that he can now control to close it up behind him. Then he might bodyswap with Moridin. There are clues that could indicate this but we won't know they are clues until we find put what actually happens. The whole purpose of a clue is to be obvious when the answer is revealed but not before then.

Ummm... no. The point of a clue is to indicate what will happen before. And your theory about Callandor may be right, but it certainly isn't part of Rand's plan, since he doesn't know how to fit Callandor into his plans.

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Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 04/06/2011 07:21:21 PM 2276 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? sleepinghour - 04/06/2011 10:26:59 PM 1095 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 01:55:19 AM 808 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? sleepinghour - 05/06/2011 12:42:08 PM 861 Views

Well... fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 04:55:26 PM 771 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? Datakim - 04/06/2011 11:38:24 PM 999 Views

Rand and LTT redqueen - 05/06/2011 12:44:54 AM 769 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 02:08:00 AM 922 Views

Merrilor Voscaia Sedai - 05/06/2011 09:25:43 AM 783 Views

Rand will break the seals with the purpose of... Nargs - 06/06/2011 09:06:43 AM 785 Views

that's more than a little foolish if he doesn't already have a plan to reseal the bore darius_sedai - 06/06/2011 01:08:38 PM 703 Views

Absurd... fionwe1987 - 06/06/2011 03:33:45 PM 725 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 10/06/2011 11:16:20 AM 717 Views

I think so, too. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/06/2011 02:45:26 PM 786 Views

Nope... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2011 05:13:55 PM 735 Views

Re: Nope... Underwood - 10/06/2011 07:27:32 PM 666 Views

Re: Nope... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 02:15:06 AM 731 Views

I'm referring to what he tells Min... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2011 05:17:53 AM 667 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 11:18:12 AM 798 Views

Also the fact that he is playing Efwene to get leaders all in one place is explicitly stated DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 11:26:18 AM 774 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2011 05:34:31 PM 722 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 07:13:22 PM 742 Views

I really like this idea newyorkersedai - 11/06/2011 06:53:34 PM 787 Views

Re: I really like this idea DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 07:16:58 PM 603 Views

Pretty good reason, actually =) get well soon *NM* newyorkersedai - 11/06/2011 08:35:44 PM 361 Views

Maybe the problem is the imbecile articulating the conflict. Cannoli - 03/07/2011 01:20:57 AM 788 Views

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<quote id="211738">
<quote id="211708">
Yeah but having a plan to kill the DO probably has some aspect that can be applied to a plan to trap him. This is all supposition though.</quote>
He didn't have a plan. He wanted to kill the DO, but that's different from having a plan for it.

<quote id="211676">
It shows he's missing important information for using Callandor. It also doesn't show that he literally intends to have this meeting then break the seals straight away. That is inferred from what e told Egwene which is deliberate misleading IMO. If not then I agree that his plan is very risky but just waiting and hoping things sort themselves out is not a better alternative.</quote>
Well, he could be misleading about immediately breaking the Seals, but I doubt it. He says he plans to meet people at Merillor and then go fight the DO. So it doesn't seem that he sees much of a waiting period in between. As for waiting for things to sort themselves out... that is what Rand wants to do, but with the Seals broken, which is just stupid.

<quote id="211676">
I think it would be pretty in character, but then Egwene annoys me. Not that she hasn't done good things but she has made some very illogical decisions without Rand's excuse of madness. Plus any plan anyone comes up with cannot be guaranteed to succeed anyway- nobody knows what the DO is, he's always won in this cycle before, it's too much of a risk to try the same thing as last time but with Saidar and Saidin in case both get tainted. The only people with more knowledge of the DO that SuperRand are the FS and so only if Lanfear is genuinely going to switch over can trustworthy (if that) new useful information realistically come. It's all very well saying he needs to have everything perfectly planned out, but that can't happen. So should he wait forever for a plan that will never e finished or try and have some advantage of any kind? He's going to be punished next book for waiting so long as it is. Either he doesn't know enough about the bore and needs to find out more- which would require Lanfear or going to Shayol Gul and I suggest he should only do that once ever considering what it is!- or LTT already let's him know what he needs to know. There aren't many other places he can get useful information from! This idea of a perfect plan doesnt exist- every AS in the age of legends together couldn't come up with it.</quote>
Let's keep our likes and dislikes of characters out of it, okay? Because however irritating you find her, I think you can agree that Egwene always uses all the advantages she has. Her not doing so is very out of character.

And yes, Rand knows more about the Bore than most others. But there may well be some Brown somewhere with some crucial piece of knowledge. But that is immaterial in the fact of what Egwene's Dream seems to mean. That is a piece of information no one seems to have except Egwene. It is new knowledge about the Bore that is exclusively Egwene's. Why shouldn't that be considered?

<quote id="211676">
How do you know? You don't know something is a clue until the event it is a clue for is revealed. I certainly didn't expect the Cleansing from the clues we were given, though I knew Saidin would have to be purified at some point. I didn't expect Rand to balefire Graendel's palace, or (until very late) trick and trap Asmodean. If anything this is Rand's MO when he's actually planning. He doesn't share his plans with his loved ones until the last minute, partially because they are dangerous and he knows they won't like the high risk to him.</quote>
I know because I saw both the Cleansing and the trap for Asmodean from a mile off. The plan at Natrin's Barrow was unpredictable, but that wasn't something that had many chapters before where clues could be placed. Sealing the Bore is more like the plan to Cleanse Saidin, and there have been hints about it. For example, everyone would have predicted Rand's idea to break the Seals. Its the when of it that is an issue. I don't really see Egwene objecting if Rand says he's going to break the Seals right before he commences re-sealing.

<quote>I still think Rand will use Callandor in a circle to draw in the entire DO as the TP then try and seal it inside himself and throw himself through the bore, maybe as a corpse, using the Pattern that he can now control to close it up behind him. Then he might bodyswap with Moridin. There are clues that could indicate this but we won't know they are clues until we find put what actually happens. The whole purpose of a clue is to be obvious when the answer is revealed but not before then.</quote>
Ummm... no. The point of a clue is to indicate what will happen before. And your theory about Callandor may be right, but it certainly isn't part of Rand's plan, since he doesn't know how to fit Callandor into his plans.
</quote>

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