One of the major events of ToM (perhaps the biggest one) was the set up for the conflict between Rand and Egwene over breaking the Seals.
By the end of the book, it looks like its going to be Rand, Min, Cadsuane, Nynaeve and Perrin versus the rest of the world, with some like Mat and Moiraine not yet committed.
But are there really two sides to this?
Here is Rand's rationale:
"Perhaps for a short burst," Rand said. "Opening the Bore will not free him immediately, though it will give him more strength. It must be done regardless. Think of our task as climbing a tall stone wall. Unfortunately, we are delaying, running laps before attempting the climb. Each step tires us for the fight to come. We must face him while still strong. That is why I must break the seals."
I think Rand is right that Breaking the Seals won't immediately free the Dark One. But the second part of his statement makes no sense since he acknowledges that breaking the Seals will make the DO stronger than he is now. If they need to face the Dark One when they're still strong, making him stronger when they don't know how to defeat him makes absolutely no sense.
The only way this makes sense is if Rand has an immediate plan to defeat the DO after breaking the Seals. But, by his own statements, he does not...
"Callandor" he said. "It plays a part in this. You have to find out how. I cannot seal the Bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."
Since he is missing something vital in his plan to seal the Bore, and is still missing it in the end of the book, his continued insistence on breaking the Seals immediately can only mean he wants to break them now, before he has a plan to defeat the Dark One.
Now, Egwene seems completely unaware of this plan. At their first meeting...
"You can't break the seals," Egwene said. "That would risk letting the Dark One free."
"A risk we must take. Clear away the rubble. The Bore must be opened fully again before it can be sealed."
"We must talk about this," she said. "Plan."
"That is why I came to you. To let you plan."
Okay, here Rand seems to imply that he knows how to seal the Bore again. Egwene doesn't seem to object to this at this point, though what Rand expects her to plan with regards to this is mysterious, and something Egwene really should have called him out on. Clearly, he was just being obstinate so that he could manipulate her into gathering support against his very ill-defined plan. So far so good.
But somewhere along the line, this has morphed into something else in Egwene's head...
"Yes, but the seals? That's foolhardy. Surely Rand can face the Dark One, and defeat him, and seal him away without taking that risk."
Ummm... where did that come from? When did planning change to this?
If I had to sum up their positions, this is how I'd do it:
Rand: Step 1)Break the Seals 2)Figure out what to do 3) Defeat the DO
Egwene: Step 1)Figure out what to do 2)Defeat the DO without affecting the Seals.
Neither of these positions make any sense whatsoever, and are completely out of character, IMO. Rand has himself made statements that show his plan to be ill thought out. Egwene, who has never disregarded anything out-of-the-box for the heck of it, fails to see that breaking the Seals may be a part of the plan?
The ideal solution, of course, is
Step 1)Figure out what to do 2)Break the Seals 3)Immediately do what you planned and defeat the DO.
I think Egwene's Dream merely warns against Breaking the Seals before planning for the next step. And I think this whole conflict, which came about only because Rand and Egwene didn't really talk about this whole situation, will be resolved pretty quickly, and was tacked on only so because of the book being split. The logic of both their ideas doesn't stand up to a few seconds of thought.
I think the real conflict in Merrilor is going to be about Rand's enforced peace with the Seanchan, and what the original conflict between Rand and Egwene was supposed to be in the un-split aMoL. The set-up has been there forever. Egwene's visceral hatred and fear of the Seanchan would make her the most obvious challenger to this plan, and I think every female Channeler in Merlillor would support her stand, resulting in a new version of the "Fateful Concord".
By the end of the book, it looks like its going to be Rand, Min, Cadsuane, Nynaeve and Perrin versus the rest of the world, with some like Mat and Moiraine not yet committed.
But are there really two sides to this?
Here is Rand's rationale:
"Perhaps for a short burst," Rand said. "Opening the Bore will not free him immediately, though it will give him more strength. It must be done regardless. Think of our task as climbing a tall stone wall. Unfortunately, we are delaying, running laps before attempting the climb. Each step tires us for the fight to come. We must face him while still strong. That is why I must break the seals."
I think Rand is right that Breaking the Seals won't immediately free the Dark One. But the second part of his statement makes no sense since he acknowledges that breaking the Seals will make the DO stronger than he is now. If they need to face the Dark One when they're still strong, making him stronger when they don't know how to defeat him makes absolutely no sense.
The only way this makes sense is if Rand has an immediate plan to defeat the DO after breaking the Seals. But, by his own statements, he does not...
"Callandor" he said. "It plays a part in this. You have to find out how. I cannot seal the Bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."
Since he is missing something vital in his plan to seal the Bore, and is still missing it in the end of the book, his continued insistence on breaking the Seals immediately can only mean he wants to break them now, before he has a plan to defeat the Dark One.
Now, Egwene seems completely unaware of this plan. At their first meeting...
"You can't break the seals," Egwene said. "That would risk letting the Dark One free."
"A risk we must take. Clear away the rubble. The Bore must be opened fully again before it can be sealed."
"We must talk about this," she said. "Plan."
"That is why I came to you. To let you plan."
Okay, here Rand seems to imply that he knows how to seal the Bore again. Egwene doesn't seem to object to this at this point, though what Rand expects her to plan with regards to this is mysterious, and something Egwene really should have called him out on. Clearly, he was just being obstinate so that he could manipulate her into gathering support against his very ill-defined plan. So far so good.
But somewhere along the line, this has morphed into something else in Egwene's head...
"Yes, but the seals? That's foolhardy. Surely Rand can face the Dark One, and defeat him, and seal him away without taking that risk."
Ummm... where did that come from? When did planning change to this?
If I had to sum up their positions, this is how I'd do it:
Rand: Step 1)Break the Seals 2)Figure out what to do 3) Defeat the DO
Egwene: Step 1)Figure out what to do 2)Defeat the DO without affecting the Seals.
Neither of these positions make any sense whatsoever, and are completely out of character, IMO. Rand has himself made statements that show his plan to be ill thought out. Egwene, who has never disregarded anything out-of-the-box for the heck of it, fails to see that breaking the Seals may be a part of the plan?
The ideal solution, of course, is
Step 1)Figure out what to do 2)Break the Seals 3)Immediately do what you planned and defeat the DO.
I think Egwene's Dream merely warns against Breaking the Seals before planning for the next step. And I think this whole conflict, which came about only because Rand and Egwene didn't really talk about this whole situation, will be resolved pretty quickly, and was tacked on only so because of the book being split. The logic of both their ideas doesn't stand up to a few seconds of thought.
I think the real conflict in Merrilor is going to be about Rand's enforced peace with the Seanchan, and what the original conflict between Rand and Egwene was supposed to be in the un-split aMoL. The set-up has been there forever. Egwene's visceral hatred and fear of the Seanchan would make her the most obvious challenger to this plan, and I think every female Channeler in Merlillor would support her stand, resulting in a new version of the "Fateful Concord".
This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 04/06/2011 at 07:27:48 PM
Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict?
04/06/2011 07:21:21 PM
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Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict?
04/06/2011 10:26:59 PM
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Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict?
05/06/2011 01:55:19 AM
- 821 Views
Rand will break the seals with the purpose of...
06/06/2011 09:06:43 AM
- 793 Views
that's more than a little foolish if he doesn't already have a plan to reseal the bore
06/06/2011 01:08:38 PM
- 712 Views
Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict?
10/06/2011 11:16:20 AM
- 727 Views
Nope...
10/06/2011 05:13:55 PM
- 747 Views
Re: Nope...
11/06/2011 02:15:06 AM
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I'm referring to what he tells Min...
11/06/2011 05:17:53 AM
- 679 Views
Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min...
11/06/2011 11:18:12 AM
- 814 Views
Also the fact that he is playing Efwene to get leaders all in one place is explicitly stated
11/06/2011 11:26:18 AM
- 786 Views
I really like this idea
11/06/2011 06:53:34 PM
- 802 Views