Re: Just a general comment... - Edit 2
Before modification by Sidious at 20/09/2009 10:04:11 PM
I could and do disagree with a number of the individual points you raise in this post, but I think we will be going around in circles if I address each one again. We know where we both stand with respect to this issue.
But I do want to approach this from a broader perspective. When I look at the effort involved in constructing a decent plot, and creating a story with strong, menacing villains and a sense of tension for the reader, then I try to think how best the characters could be used to provide a good climax to the story.
In all honesty, I would find it peculiar if the build up that has gone into Demandred's persona is wasted in the final volume. I confess that the biggest reason for my interest in Demandred is the severe lack of decent villains in this series. Demandred has the sense of mystery, the aura of greatness and the necessary attributes to rescue what is left of the series.
The mad men, pleasure seeking women and other incompetent members of the Forsaken have severely damaged this series. The lack of strong villains is so noticeable that RJ had to come out himself and defend the bad guys with his famous reference to the Light being a boxer that is down and out and left with only a last desperate punch in the final round to try and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
Frankly, that is not the sense that one gets when confronted with the comical villains in this series. Sure, the PLOT may lead towards the Shadow growing stronger, but the CHARACTERIZATION has not contributed to that in the slightest.
RJ has gone overboard in portraying the Forsaken as flawed and banal. This series NEEDS some kick-ass villainy and my hopes are pinned on Demandred because, frankly, there is no one else left. He is the one remaining Forsaken who has not been openly humiliated, portrayed in a subservient role or as otherwise having failed spectacularly.
And the fact that he was "the second greatest man of the Age of Legends" means that there is decent material to work with if you want to construct a strong villain.
Anyway, that is my overarching point of view, without delving into individual attributes as we have done a million times before - and will no doubt do again as more information is revealed.
But I do want to approach this from a broader perspective. When I look at the effort involved in constructing a decent plot, and creating a story with strong, menacing villains and a sense of tension for the reader, then I try to think how best the characters could be used to provide a good climax to the story.
In all honesty, I would find it peculiar if the build up that has gone into Demandred's persona is wasted in the final volume. I confess that the biggest reason for my interest in Demandred is the severe lack of decent villains in this series. Demandred has the sense of mystery, the aura of greatness and the necessary attributes to rescue what is left of the series.
The mad men, pleasure seeking women and other incompetent members of the Forsaken have severely damaged this series. The lack of strong villains is so noticeable that RJ had to come out himself and defend the bad guys with his famous reference to the Light being a boxer that is down and out and left with only a last desperate punch in the final round to try and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
Frankly, that is not the sense that one gets when confronted with the comical villains in this series. Sure, the PLOT may lead towards the Shadow growing stronger, but the CHARACTERIZATION has not contributed to that in the slightest.
RJ has gone overboard in portraying the Forsaken as flawed and banal. This series NEEDS some kick-ass villainy and my hopes are pinned on Demandred because, frankly, there is no one else left. He is the one remaining Forsaken who has not been openly humiliated, portrayed in a subservient role or as otherwise having failed spectacularly.
And the fact that he was "the second greatest man of the Age of Legends" means that there is decent material to work with if you want to construct a strong villain.
Anyway, that is my overarching point of view, without delving into individual attributes as we have done a million times before - and will no doubt do again as more information is revealed.
Trust me, no one in the whole world understands what you are saying better than I do. The lack of decent villainy is my greatest disappointment in the series. When I first read WoT I was enthralled by the potentially legendary villainy who have all been thrown down the toilet without the loss of a single main character of the Light. The theme that good always wins is so saccharin it can knot even the strongest stomach.
That said, this is why I'm convinced I'm right and you're not - because I've accepted now that this is how RJ views the world, and his own fantasy world too. The Forsaken have never achieved anything of note despite his ridiculous contention that they're winning the race. Why should Demandred be different? He won't be. You're totally right that the series needs an act of supreme villainy but I don't think it will happen. It's just too much to ask for when RJ has humiliated/castrated/killed/snuffed almost every other villain of note. The Shadow are more of a parody than a true organization of terror. Consider how ridiculous Mesaana has become. I truly used to have some high regard of her as a villain, but she's a total idiot now and she speaks like a child. In LoC she was a considerably easier villain to read about.
Forsaken deaths are almost always humiliating, but thematic as to the nature of evil and good. It all started when we were introduced to Balthamel who couldn't even deflect a Nym from killing him. After that Aginor actually burnt himself out - and we were told right then that he was 2nd only to LTT. Even then I recall my stomach groaning as the inevitable sewer for villainy opened and the FS number decreased to 11. After that we saw Be'lal die to a 3rd Age AS which opened the floodgates to all future FS deaths... Cadsuane could do the same to Demandred for all we know. We saw Rahvin burned by Nynaeve, we saw Sammael eaten by Mashadar, Aginor killed again etc. I waited for five years for the terror of Semirhage to show her face, but she shot a single fireball and that was it. We saw an almost untrained Nynaeve defeat Moghedien with all her 2nd age knowledge. In short, it's a joke.
I'm only consoled by Lanfear, who luckily is my favourite character, who put on the most spectacular of duels with Rand. She killed everyone who was not Rand, or severely injured them, and then put him on his knees with almost shakespearean drama. It was everything I ever wanted from the series, and she didn't even die - she merely vanished. Had Lanfear been knifed by Moiraine or the equivalent, there is no doubt that I would have stopped reading the series.
Now the second greatest man from the AOL is a feat which is appealing, and that's why I do think he'll show his strategic vision and prowess. As a channeler I don't think he's better than Lanfear, Sammael, Semirhage or Graendal - so I don't think you'll get much more there. The Cleansing threw the Forsaken into the battleground and they all suffered to greater or lesser extents. If there was any evidence that Demandred was set up to be the grand display at the end of the series, I would almost welcome it, but I think he hasn't been shown to be superior to the other six, and RJ will give him a parallel plot, which is always disappointing to me. But it always happens to. After Semirhage, I don't have much hope for anything. I don't think Graendal will achieve much, but she'll probably die in this book.
I understand your emotions and your obsession with Demandred becoming something. You have such high hopes for him as a villain, but surely the other Forsaken taught you a lesson of what to expect?