I couldn't have said it better myself if I had spent a week trying to capture the difference between our two points of view.
I DO think Demandred is almost a Dragon in terms of his ability - because multiple sources have conveyed this very fact to us. He WAS almost the Dragon. The second greatest man of the Age of Legends. FACT. That accurately depicts my point of view, indeed.
Being somewhat diplomatic, I would not have demonstrated the extent to which you underestimate him quite as drastically as you put it, but since it is in your own words, who am I to argue.
In hindsight, I think you will come to realize the extent of your error in judgment in this regard.
I DO think Demandred is almost a Dragon in terms of his ability - because multiple sources have conveyed this very fact to us. He WAS almost the Dragon. The second greatest man of the Age of Legends. FACT. That accurately depicts my point of view, indeed.
Being somewhat diplomatic, I would not have demonstrated the extent to which you underestimate him quite as drastically as you put it, but since it is in your own words, who am I to argue.
In hindsight, I think you will come to realize the extent of your error in judgment in this regard.
Lol, okay this is a problem and it explains your opinions over the past few days/months/years regarding Demandred. You still consider him to be Barid Bel Medar, his old self, which is totally untrue.
Is Semirhage still the greatest Restorer of the 2nd Age? Is Graendal still considered to be revered for her simple lifestyle? Of course not! They've all gone down an irreversible spiral of evil. I can't believe you don't think this would have affected Demandred.
Demandred is nearly as strong and skilled as Lews Therin in the Power, but as a man, he's not even a fraction, and character makes all the difference. Flaws are the reasons for the Forsaken's fall from grace. Even the Dark One says it for crying out loud. Rahvin... dead in his pride. Sammael who advertised that he was in Ilian. Lanfear who thought that no one could touch her while she was torturing Rand. Semirhage who thought she could leash the Dragon Reborn and five of his allies unaided.
There is an essential theme around the Forsaken i.e. their great natural skill but their waste and perversion of it. Therefore, I think I'm the one who's read Demandred properly. You still think of him as one of Lews Therin's gifted generals. In power he's lost little, but in character he's lost everything. It's thus completely accurate to say that he could be taken down by a thorn in his foot. Perhaps Barid Bel Medar would have died in a blaze of glory, but Demandred will get nothing - just like every other Forsaken. Unless, of course, you think death by mashadar is what a man of Sammael's stature was worth?
I could and do disagree with a number of the individual points you raise in this post, but I think we will be going around in circles if I address each one again. We know where we both stand with respect to this issue.
But I do want to approach this from a broader perspective. When I look at the effort involved in constructing a decent plot, and creating a story with strong, menacing villains and a sense of tension for the reader, then I try to think how best the characters could be used to provide a good climax to the story.
In all honesty, I would find it peculiar if the build up that has gone into Demandred's persona is wasted in the final volume. I confess that the biggest reason for my interest in Demandred is the severe lack of decent villains in this series. Demandred has the sense of mystery, the aura of greatness and the necessary attributes to rescue what is left of the series.
The mad men, pleasure seeking women and other incompetent members of the Forsaken have severely damaged this series. The lack of strong villains is so noticeable that RJ had to come out himself and defend the bad guys with his famous reference to the Light being a boxer that is down and out and left with only a last desperate punch in the final round to try and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
Frankly, that is not the sense that one gets when confronted with the comical villains in this series. Sure, the PLOT may lead towards the Shadow growing stronger, but the CHARACTERIZATION has not contributed to that in the slightest.
RJ has gone overboard in portraying the Forsaken as flawed and banal. This series NEEDS some kick-ass villainy and my hopes are pinned on Demandred because, frankly, there is no one else left. He is the one remaining Forsaken who has not been openly humiliated, portrayed in a subservient role or as otherwise having failed spectacularly.
And the fact that he was "the second greatest man of the Age of Legends" means that there is decent material to work with if you want to construct a strong villain.
Anyway, that is my overarching point of view, without delving into individual attributes as we have done a million times before - and will no doubt do again as more information is revealed.
This series NEEDS a major act of aggression from Demandred. A major act that achieves a measure of success. Else EVERY villain will have failed without exception. And spectacularly so.
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers*
16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM
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Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM*
18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM
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mobipocket.com
18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM
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Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM*
20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM
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A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM
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Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM
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The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi
18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM
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I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM*
20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM
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Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious?
18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM
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yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM*
18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM
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Trollocs!
18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM
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Why not a gray man then?
18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM
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Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible
19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM
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But there's no plausible deniability
19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM
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But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done
19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM
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Who is Graendal going to wack?
18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM
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I think it could be Tam. *NM*
18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM
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Great idea.
18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM
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Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM
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Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM
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Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts
18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM
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My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal
18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM
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but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool'
19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM
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Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken...
20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM
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Forsaken Chapter
18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM
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I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM*
19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM
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Various comments
19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM
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The Dying Man
19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM
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After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs
19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM
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Another reason why Moridin is not Taim
19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM
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This isn't evidence.
19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM
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It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table
19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM
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Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM
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I think there are many issues here
19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM
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The Malign Influence of the Forsaken
19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM
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I have doubts about that degree of conversion
19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM
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Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM
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Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt?
20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM
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I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand
20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM
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Some sweeping statements there...
20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM
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Not at all
20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM
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A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points...
20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM
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Not really
20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM
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I couldn't have summarized it better myself...
20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM
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But...
20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM
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Possible...
20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM
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So that's your argument now?
20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM
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I think you took that the wrong way...
20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM
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Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise
20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM
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Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM
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Re: Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM
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I reject the cult of the "cool" villain.
20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
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I don't really agree
21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM
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But these aren't criminals...
21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM
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