Active Users:1201 Time:22/11/2024 04:38:12 PM
No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM
We see numerous examples of Warders acting as advisors and confidantes to their Aes Sedai, including being the voice of reason or contradiction. They might accept that the final say is the sister's, but the warder is allowed (and possibly encouraged) to question her and play devil's advocate. By standards of comparison, Moiraine does not really seem to have as light a leash on Lan as she claims. For many other bondings, the relationship seems akin to that of a commanding officer-senior NCO working relationship. The former might have the command, but the latter's input and practical perspective are welcomed. Also, considering the established social order of Aes Sedai relative to everyone else, plus the rule about not interfering in another's sister's business, the Warder all but HAS to question his Aes Sedai, because if he doesn't, who will? And that goes triple for an Aes Sedai of high rank, whom even Sitters might not be able to sway. All in all, there is very little basis for the implied position in your subject line, that Egwene needs him to obey and he has to learn to take it.


If we were to use the example of the military and the ranking system, the officers are in the direct chain of command; they issue the orders and have direct authority to act as representatives of the United States, which is why they are given commissions that are signed by the President. The NCOs actually carry about the day-to-day tasks that keep the services running. But only a foolish Lieutenant would not listen to the typically more seasoned Sergeant; one, because obviously the NCO has experience that can be valuable in real life and two, because the NCO is the person actually carrying out the Lieutenant's orders.

And you must also keep in mind that even the newest Lieutenant outranks the Sergeant Major of the NCO Corps in terms of the hierarchy of military forces precisely because the commission they received is a point of demarcation in the ranking system.

Though Warders may disagree with their Aes Sedai, this is very rarely done in public for the practical reason that to the public eye, the Warder is the right hand of the Sister. Moiraine and Lan presented a united front to the world precisely because ultimately, she wasn't a fool, and he backed up her decisions.

A Warders' advice may be welcomed in private, but in public, this is tantamount to questioning the judgment of a superior in their ranking system and it undermines credibility. to go back to the military example, a new Lt. often makes mistakes, but if they have what is considered a good NCO, the NCO will accommodate the mistake in such a way that the order is carried out in the way it was intended to.

In terms of the White Tower as an organization, Warders are never truly part of it in the way that a Novice, Accepted or Sister is because these women form the body of the White Tower while Warders feel a calling to serve them. This is, to put it bluntly, an unequal relationship and it seems it only approaches a partnership in terms of private interaction and intimate knowledge of the other person.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Reply to message
Egwene vs. Gawyn (ToM spoilers of course) - 28/04/2011 05:01:46 AM 3951 Views
There's fifty feet of crap between rock bottom and your post... *NM* - 28/04/2011 07:40:04 AM 470 Views
Almost three days since the last post...at least I'm trying. - 28/04/2011 12:17:59 PM 930 Views
Sorry about that... - 28/04/2011 10:58:50 PM 990 Views
Ah, its always good to see a good Egwene rant. Bravo! NM *NM* - 28/04/2011 01:58:46 PM 708 Views
Great work, Cannoli - 28/04/2011 02:09:28 PM 944 Views
Regarding the mother's permission.... - 28/04/2011 07:26:29 PM 1012 Views
while i agree with you on most of this - 28/04/2011 04:53:06 PM 1075 Views
hmpf, i post a good point and nothing - 28/04/2011 11:09:53 PM 852 Views
Everybody agrees with you, that's why there were no replies *NM* - 28/04/2011 11:29:13 PM 457 Views
Here's a scary thought - 28/04/2011 11:54:50 PM 1155 Views
OMGWTFBBQ!? - 28/04/2011 11:58:37 PM 912 Views
In regards to the letters... - 28/04/2011 05:28:13 PM 1115 Views
But Gawyn was not Egwene's subject - 28/04/2011 06:09:31 PM 930 Views
Which was why I thought it was appropriate, since he meant to act as Egwene's Warder. - 28/04/2011 06:19:53 PM 894 Views
The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners. - 28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM 1049 Views
No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants. - 28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM 847 Views
Marriage - 28/04/2011 08:27:53 PM 871 Views
Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical - 28/04/2011 09:32:22 PM 1072 Views
Here's the thing though... - 28/04/2011 11:20:32 PM 897 Views
No, but it's cute and quirky when Faile does it. - 29/04/2011 03:06:50 PM 1066 Views
But... - 29/04/2011 10:52:03 PM 862 Views
That's not really clear - 29/04/2011 11:41:20 PM 991 Views
Actually, it is... - 30/04/2011 06:37:42 PM 1003 Views
Re: Actually, it is... - 30/04/2011 11:17:21 PM 883 Views
Didn't Siuan, Gareth and Gawyn tell her about the Bloodknife they encountered? - 02/05/2011 02:33:08 PM 889 Views
It isn't the worst romance in WoT - 28/04/2011 08:10:23 PM 1199 Views
Re: It isn't the worst romance in WoT - 28/04/2011 08:25:31 PM 1119 Views
thumbs up to you both *NM* - 28/04/2011 08:45:51 PM 439 Views
Re: It isn't the worst romance in WoT - 28/04/2011 08:46:37 PM 1010 Views
Galad is a great option for a political marriage - 28/04/2011 09:04:46 PM 882 Views
Yes, but... - 28/04/2011 09:40:39 PM 926 Views
but galad knew nothing of berelain's closeness to rand, so that couldn't have affected anything - 28/04/2011 10:12:23 PM 961 Views
Exactly - 28/04/2011 10:27:04 PM 805 Views
Yes. An often overlooked point is that ELAYNE, not Egwene, gains the most power in ToM - 28/04/2011 09:42:43 PM 1261 Views
Except... - 28/04/2011 11:16:25 PM 924 Views
Well... - 29/04/2011 12:14:42 AM 875 Views
Re: Well... - 29/04/2011 08:39:37 AM 861 Views
Except they're both really hot. - 28/04/2011 10:01:46 PM 1059 Views
They were naive - 28/04/2011 11:10:34 PM 885 Views
Re: They were naive - 29/04/2011 03:18:42 PM 1123 Views
I can only quibble; Egwene became so insufferable in ToM I'm convinced her fate will be unpleasant. - 04/05/2011 12:41:53 AM 1024 Views
Siuan... - 04/05/2011 05:42:59 AM 1029 Views
Re: Siuan screwed up big time. - 07/05/2011 03:35:46 AM 898 Views
Re: Siuan screwed up big time. - 12/05/2011 02:13:08 PM 887 Views
"McClellanesque", eh? I'll have to remember that one. - 16/05/2011 12:12:23 AM 1161 Views

Reply to Message