No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM
We see numerous examples of Warders acting as advisors and confidantes to their Aes Sedai, including being the voice of reason or contradiction. They might accept that the final say is the sister's, but the warder is allowed (and possibly encouraged) to question her and play devil's advocate. By standards of comparison, Moiraine does not really seem to have as light a leash on Lan as she claims. For many other bondings, the relationship seems akin to that of a commanding officer-senior NCO working relationship. The former might have the command, but the latter's input and practical perspective are welcomed. Also, considering the established social order of Aes Sedai relative to everyone else, plus the rule about not interfering in another's sister's business, the Warder all but HAS to question his Aes Sedai, because if he doesn't, who will? And that goes triple for an Aes Sedai of high rank, whom even Sitters might not be able to sway. All in all, there is very little basis for the implied position in your subject line, that Egwene needs him to obey and he has to learn to take it.
If we were to use the example of the military and the ranking system, the officers are in the direct chain of command; they issue the orders and have direct authority to act as representatives of the United States, which is why they are given commissions that are signed by the President. The NCOs actually carry about the day-to-day tasks that keep the services running. But only a foolish Lieutenant would not listen to the typically more seasoned Sergeant; one, because obviously the NCO has experience that can be valuable in real life and two, because the NCO is the person actually carrying out the Lieutenant's orders.
And you must also keep in mind that even the newest Lieutenant outranks the Sergeant Major of the NCO Corps in terms of the hierarchy of military forces precisely because the commission they received is a point of demarcation in the ranking system.
Though Warders may disagree with their Aes Sedai, this is very rarely done in public for the practical reason that to the public eye, the Warder is the right hand of the Sister. Moiraine and Lan presented a united front to the world precisely because ultimately, she wasn't a fool, and he backed up her decisions.
A Warders' advice may be welcomed in private, but in public, this is tantamount to questioning the judgment of a superior in their ranking system and it undermines credibility. to go back to the military example, a new Lt. often makes mistakes, but if they have what is considered a good NCO, the NCO will accommodate the mistake in such a way that the order is carried out in the way it was intended to.
In terms of the White Tower as an organization, Warders are never truly part of it in the way that a Novice, Accepted or Sister is because these women form the body of the White Tower while Warders feel a calling to serve them. This is, to put it bluntly, an unequal relationship and it seems it only approaches a partnership in terms of private interaction and intimate knowledge of the other person.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Egwene vs. Gawyn (ToM spoilers of course)
28/04/2011 05:01:46 AM
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There's fifty feet of crap between rock bottom and your post... *NM*
28/04/2011 07:40:04 AM
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Almost three days since the last post...at least I'm trying.
28/04/2011 12:17:59 PM
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What is to discuss here? You hate Egwene and will spin anything to put her in a negative light
28/04/2011 12:59:58 PM
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But he's so good at it. all the pieces are in there and close to the right place... like a picasso.
03/05/2011 12:51:54 AM
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I'd say there's no need to take it so seriously when there's so few posts lately. You should see
28/04/2011 05:59:19 PM
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while i agree with you on most of this
28/04/2011 04:53:06 PM
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hmpf, i post a good point and nothing
28/04/2011 11:09:53 PM
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you could say the same about a lot of the relationships in this series
28/04/2011 04:59:19 PM
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I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
28/04/2011 08:15:52 PM
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Re: I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
29/04/2011 06:55:14 PM
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In regards to the letters...
28/04/2011 05:28:13 PM
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But Gawyn was not Egwene's subject
28/04/2011 06:09:31 PM
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Which was why I thought it was appropriate, since he meant to act as Egwene's Warder.
28/04/2011 06:19:53 PM
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The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners.
28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM
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No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants.
28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM
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Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
28/04/2011 09:32:22 PM
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Here's the thing though...
28/04/2011 11:20:32 PM
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No, but it's cute and quirky when Faile does it.
29/04/2011 03:06:50 PM
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But...
29/04/2011 10:52:03 PM
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That's not really clear
29/04/2011 11:41:20 PM
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Actually, it is...
30/04/2011 06:37:42 PM
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Re: Actually, it is...
30/04/2011 11:17:21 PM
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Didn't Siuan, Gareth and Gawyn tell her about the Bloodknife they encountered?
02/05/2011 02:33:08 PM
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Re: Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
28/04/2011 11:36:24 PM
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My two cents: yes, a little, maybe, and possibly not.
28/04/2011 06:05:09 PM
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Regarding your reference to another Emond's Fielder: What are you talking about?
28/04/2011 09:06:13 PM
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both together, couldn't separate them in my mind - perrin's evasiveness or nyn's trickiness *NM*
28/04/2011 10:16:57 PM
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It isn't the worst romance in WoT
28/04/2011 08:10:23 PM
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Galad is a great option for a political marriage
28/04/2011 09:04:46 PM
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Yes, but...
28/04/2011 09:40:39 PM
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but galad knew nothing of berelain's closeness to rand, so that couldn't have affected anything
28/04/2011 10:12:23 PM
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Yes. An often overlooked point is that ELAYNE, not Egwene, gains the most power in ToM
28/04/2011 09:42:43 PM
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Except they're both really hot.
28/04/2011 10:01:46 PM
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I can only quibble; Egwene became so insufferable in ToM I'm convinced her fate will be unpleasant.
04/05/2011 12:41:53 AM
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Siuan...
04/05/2011 05:42:59 AM
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Re: Siuan screwed up big time.
07/05/2011 03:35:46 AM
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Good points all round (do you switch brains when getting into real world politics? ) & re: the Talk
12/05/2011 02:04:06 PM
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Thanks, (and no, you just become less and less astute as we move farther from fiction. )
15/05/2011 11:46:41 PM
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