The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM
We see numerous examples of Warders acting as advisors and confidantes to their Aes Sedai, including being the voice of reason or contradiction. They might accept that the final say is the sister's, but the warder is allowed (and possibly encouraged) to question her and play devil's advocate. By standards of comparison, Moiraine does not really seem to have as light a leash on Lan as she claims. For many other bondings, the relationship seems akin to that of a commanding officer-senior NCO working relationship. The former might have the command, but the latter's input and practical perspective are welcomed. Also, considering the established social order of Aes Sedai relative to everyone else, plus the rule about not interfering in another's sister's business, the Warder all but HAS to question his Aes Sedai, because if he doesn't, who will? And that goes triple for an Aes Sedai of high rank, whom even Sitters might not be able to sway. All in all, there is very little basis for the implied position in your subject line, that Egwene needs him to obey and he has to learn to take it.
Though I admit this clarification regarding the personal situation between them is true as well. Gawyn WAS behaving very badly, as his sister suggested, and had serious envy issues (I wonder how much of the attraction to Egwene was based on some deep-buried, strongly suppressed envy of Galad - what they say in recent books about Gawyn's possible envy of Rand could apply as well to Galad who seems to be everything Gawyn wishes he could be, and lusting after the same type of girl or hoping to get the girl instead of Galad might be coping mechanisms on his part), so of all the characters who could get this short end of a stick, no one deserves it more.
However, where love comes in, people are not supposed to get what they deserve, they are supposed to be given whatever the lover can give. If we only got what we deserved, there would be no happy endings. Egwene's behavior has a long way to go before she matches up to the ideal of Corinthians.
He wasn't sure what he even wanted at that point, so I thought it was appropriate that her letter was distant.
Honestly, he was acting as a tool and blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it too in the sense that he wanted to be her Warder, but he didn't want to obey her. He wanted to kill Rand in some grand moment of heroism, but didn't want the Dark One to win. He wanted to be associated with Egwene who was the ruler of the Aes Sedai at that point, but he didn't want to recognize that this would make him part of the Tower. He wanted to believe that Rand killed Morgase, even though two women he loves and another friend told him outright that this was not true.
He got a chilly response from her because he was acting like a whack-a-doo. I was glad that Elayne pointed out that he was becoming undependable and a liability in that his personal conflicts was undermining his decision making.
Honestly, he was acting as a tool and blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it too in the sense that he wanted to be her Warder, but he didn't want to obey her. He wanted to kill Rand in some grand moment of heroism, but didn't want the Dark One to win. He wanted to be associated with Egwene who was the ruler of the Aes Sedai at that point, but he didn't want to recognize that this would make him part of the Tower. He wanted to believe that Rand killed Morgase, even though two women he loves and another friend told him outright that this was not true.
He got a chilly response from her because he was acting like a whack-a-doo. I was glad that Elayne pointed out that he was becoming undependable and a liability in that his personal conflicts was undermining his decision making.
Though I admit this clarification regarding the personal situation between them is true as well. Gawyn WAS behaving very badly, as his sister suggested, and had serious envy issues (I wonder how much of the attraction to Egwene was based on some deep-buried, strongly suppressed envy of Galad - what they say in recent books about Gawyn's possible envy of Rand could apply as well to Galad who seems to be everything Gawyn wishes he could be, and lusting after the same type of girl or hoping to get the girl instead of Galad might be coping mechanisms on his part), so of all the characters who could get this short end of a stick, no one deserves it more.
However, where love comes in, people are not supposed to get what they deserve, they are supposed to be given whatever the lover can give. If we only got what we deserved, there would be no happy endings. Egwene's behavior has a long way to go before she matches up to the ideal of Corinthians.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Egwene vs. Gawyn (ToM spoilers of course)
- 28/04/2011 05:01:46 AM
3951 Views
There's fifty feet of crap between rock bottom and your post... *NM*
- 28/04/2011 07:40:04 AM
470 Views
Almost three days since the last post...at least I'm trying.
- 28/04/2011 12:17:59 PM
930 Views
What is to discuss here? You hate Egwene and will spin anything to put her in a negative light
- 28/04/2011 12:59:58 PM
988 Views
But he's so good at it. all the pieces are in there and close to the right place... like a picasso.
- 03/05/2011 12:51:54 AM
953 Views
I'd say there's no need to take it so seriously when there's so few posts lately. You should see
- 28/04/2011 05:59:19 PM
891 Views
while i agree with you on most of this
- 28/04/2011 04:53:06 PM
1075 Views
hmpf, i post a good point and nothing
- 28/04/2011 11:09:53 PM
852 Views
*NM*
you could say the same about a lot of the relationships in this series
- 28/04/2011 04:59:19 PM
1024 Views
I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
- 28/04/2011 08:15:52 PM
1067 Views
Re: I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
- 29/04/2011 06:55:14 PM
911 Views
In regards to the letters...
- 28/04/2011 05:28:13 PM
1115 Views
But Gawyn was not Egwene's subject
- 28/04/2011 06:09:31 PM
930 Views
Which was why I thought it was appropriate, since he meant to act as Egwene's Warder.
- 28/04/2011 06:19:53 PM
894 Views
The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners.
- 28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM
1050 Views
No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants.
- 28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM
847 Views
Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
- 28/04/2011 09:32:22 PM
1072 Views
Here's the thing though...
- 28/04/2011 11:20:32 PM
898 Views
No, but it's cute and quirky when Faile does it.
- 29/04/2011 03:06:50 PM
1066 Views
But...
- 29/04/2011 10:52:03 PM
862 Views
That's not really clear
- 29/04/2011 11:41:20 PM
991 Views
Actually, it is...
- 30/04/2011 06:37:42 PM
1003 Views
Re: Actually, it is...
- 30/04/2011 11:17:21 PM
883 Views
Didn't Siuan, Gareth and Gawyn tell her about the Bloodknife they encountered?
- 02/05/2011 02:33:08 PM
889 Views
Re: Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
- 28/04/2011 11:36:24 PM
910 Views
My two cents: yes, a little, maybe, and possibly not.
- 28/04/2011 06:05:09 PM
1036 Views
Regarding your reference to another Emond's Fielder: What are you talking about?
- 28/04/2011 09:06:13 PM
891 Views
both together, couldn't separate them in my mind - perrin's evasiveness or nyn's trickiness *NM*
- 28/04/2011 10:16:57 PM
475 Views
It isn't the worst romance in WoT
- 28/04/2011 08:10:23 PM
1199 Views
Galad is a great option for a political marriage
- 28/04/2011 09:04:46 PM
882 Views
Yes, but...
- 28/04/2011 09:40:39 PM
926 Views
but galad knew nothing of berelain's closeness to rand, so that couldn't have affected anything
- 28/04/2011 10:12:23 PM
961 Views
Yes. An often overlooked point is that ELAYNE, not Egwene, gains the most power in ToM
- 28/04/2011 09:42:43 PM
1261 Views
Except they're both really hot.
- 28/04/2011 10:01:46 PM
1059 Views
I can only quibble; Egwene became so insufferable in ToM I'm convinced her fate will be unpleasant.
- 04/05/2011 12:41:53 AM
1024 Views
Siuan...
- 04/05/2011 05:42:59 AM
1029 Views
Re: Siuan screwed up big time.
- 07/05/2011 03:35:46 AM
898 Views
Good points all round (do you switch brains when getting into real world politics? ) & re: the Talk
- 12/05/2011 02:04:06 PM
848 Views
Thanks, (and no, you just become less and less astute as we move farther from fiction. 
)
- 15/05/2011 11:46:41 PM
1198 Views
)
- 15/05/2011 11:46:41 PM
1198 Views