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Re: Forsaken-Who's Actually Dead? DomA Send a noteboard - 25/03/2011 06:08:49 PM
A number of forsaken have died, then come back to life over the years and it strikes me as very likely that they will come back to life now that the last battle has begun presuming they weren't destroyed by balefire.

Unfortunately, my wot comprehension is not what it used to be so I'm wondering what Forsaken are actually dead for good and which one's MIGHT come back. Idk why but I feel like aran'gar is going to come back, somehow...

I know Rahvin is dead for good and so is Bel'al, but I can't remember who else. It strikes me that Asmodean probably won't come back bc he sucked so much to begin with but who knows.

Any ideas?


Those we know for sure:

- Asmodean: Jordan has long ago confirmed the DO was not able to secure his soul.

- Rahvin

- Aran'gar: the amount of balefire Rand used was really massive.

Pretty much certain, but still a matter for debate in the fringe circles:

Be'lal: balefired, yes, but some believe the amount woven by Moiraine fits the "very small" criteria that could leave a small window of opportunity to the DO. That's quite unlikely IMO, first because Moiraine may think her weave small, but her strongest balefire (using her angreal too) is probably hardly "a very small amount". But most of all we can now interpret the hints RJ gave regarding Asmodean now that we know Graendal killed him. So RJ said the DO could not secure his soul because of the combination of two factors: where he died and how he was killed - not one or the other, but the two factors combined. That's pretty much accepted now as a confirmation that Graendal used a really small amount of balefire to kill Asmodean but also that distance from SG when a Forsaken dies is a factor in securing the soul. The farther from SG, the more difficult/longer it takes the DO, and any balefire reduces the "window of opportunity" for securing the soul, and in Asmodean's case it appears the combination of distance and balefire didn't let enough time to the DO. Had Asmodean been killed, say, in the Blight, the amount of balefire used still let enough time for Shai'tan to act. Had the amount of balefire used been great enough, the window of opportunity is gone at the moment of death.

That of course makes it doubtful the DO could secure Be'lal's soul in similar circumstances but much father away from SG and with no doubt a significantly more powerful balefire weave.

- Sammael: according to an answer by Jordan, Sammael is "toast", his soul "eaten"/"captured" by Mashadar.

Semirhage: She was balefired, but by the weave made with the True Power, thus a few feet away from Shai'tan, in a way. Could Shai'tan used the fact Rand was linked to his own essence to reach and secure the soul? Possibly. It think it's fairly unlikely Shai'tan did it even if he could, mostly because AMOL is the final book of the series, and Jordan could not have planned tons of "false death episodes". He already had one for Graendal, so I really doubt there will be a second in the book.

Mesaana: I think she's done for. Her mind is gone, it's likely even if transmigrated she'd remain that way. Mesaana would need a real rebirth and its blank slate to return to normal, IMO. I think Jordan killed her this way for the irony (the scholar with the fried mind) and to add a bit of variety to a book in which the villain would meet their downfall one after the other.

Graendal: Same thing, IMO. She's done for. She might return as a "pet" of SH, but I doubt it for one reason: if it were the case, there was no point "spoiling" the surprise by implying it's what SH intends for her. So I think we've probably seen the last of her. She's for now the pet of SH, until it tires of her or her mind is gone, after which I'd imagine she'll be killed and her soul secure, for Shai'tan to punish her some more. If he bothered to secure Semirhage's soul (if even possible) and Osan'gar's, it's probably what he does with them.


So I think the "dead Forsaken" will all remain truly dead from now on. That includes Osan'gar, who technically can return, but I doubt Shai'tan bothered. The DO is already in "endgame" mode.


That leaves Demandred, who will no doubt play the central role in the military campaign coming, and the Dream Team (Moridin and his two TAR Pets). Through Moghedien and Lanfear, Moridin can remain active in the LB before the final episodes in which he'll play the greater part. I suspect Lanfear will be the other surviving until then. Demandred and Moghedien are the two "expandable ones", ie: the two Forsaken who may die before the Strike at SG, or early in it.



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