seems to me a non-sentient entity would be less likely to give abilities to a specific individual
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 10/03/2011 09:28:36 PM
The Wheel would have to know and recognize a specific individual and then will them to have a set of abilities. That to me implies sentience.
Playing the numbers by arranging for the right set of genetics seems far more likely to me. It would be like a trigger, once Rand's genetic code appeared, the Wheel was able to place the soul of the Dragon in that body. nothing says they have to be genetically identical, merely hold a certain set of genetic markers in common for the body to be capable of displaying the abilities of the Dragon. Who knows there could be millions of people in the world that have the necessary traits to become the Dragon.
The Wheel clearly made arrangements for the right parents to come together for Rand to be born, giving Gitara the Foretelling that Tigrane had to leave Andor and seek out the Maidens, ensuring the timing for Tirgrane to give birth on the slopes of Dragonmount, making sure Tam found Rand and could take him to be raised by the old blood, but be of the ancient blood etc... if there was no worry about genetics (and I'm simply speculating) why would the Pattern go through such lengths to ensure the very specific parents for Rand? Why not simply have a random Maiden become the mother? Why not imbue Galad with the abilities of the Dragon if the father wasn't important?
Seems to me The Wheel arranged for probabilities to create the correct body for the soul it had in the wings.
As for circles, I see what you are saying, and it could very well be the way, but we've not seen any instance of two Channelers working on a weave together. And what happens in a circles where only a man can lead or only a woman can lead? Why wouldn't the skilled individual leading simply grab a handy angreal or sa'angreal to do the task?
It makes no sense that Siuan led the circle to Heal Mat when she is at best an average Healer, why did she at no point shift control to someone more skilled in the area? When the FS plot to gang up on Rand early in the series was afoot there was open discussion of only one individual controlling the link, why not pass control around to most effectively fight Rand with each individual's strengths being put into play? Certainly distrust played some role in that, but why not even discuss strategic opportunities?
I think we view what "abilities" are slightly different. I see this as special by-products of strengths, i.e. Egwene can sense ore in the ground, or Aviendha's reading of ter'angreal or Nynaeve's Listening to the Wind etc... none of these things would be passed along with a Link, but I don't see flow affinity as the same thing. Egwene is strong in Earth (and as such she has special abilities from this strength), she would naturally contribute that strength to any circle she participated in...
I see every Channeler's strength as something akin to a weighted average. If Egwene is a 18 in Earth and a 16 in air there is no reason to believe that she is only passing along 14 Earth to a circle...
Let's quantify what I mean further (all numbers are made up):
Egwene, Aviendha and Elayne Link
Egwene = 18 Earth, 18 Spirit, 16 Air, 15 Water, 13 Fire
Elane = 18 Fire, 18 Air, 16 Water, 16 Earth, 12 Spirit
Aviendha = 18 Water, 18 Air, 15 Spirit, 15 Fire, 14 Earth
In a link they = 48 Earth, 45 Spirit, 52 Air, 49 Water, 46 Fire ...
Swap Metaara for Egwene
Metaara is 18 Water, 18 Air, 16 Spirit, 15 Earth, 13 Fire
in this link they would be 45 Earth, 43 Spirit, 54 Air, 52 Water, 46 Fire
Furthermore what if you replace Egwene with someone like Moiraine?
Moiraine = 12 Air, 11 Water, 9 Spirit, 7 Fire, 6 Earth
Now you have a link that is
33 Earth, 36 Spirit, 48 Air, 45 Water, 40 Fire
Each contributes her proportionate strength in each flow to the circle. When Egwene is leading she can make Cuendillar and sense ores etc ... but Elayne would not be able to do these things as they are special abilities specific to Egwene.
Every individual has a specific set of strengths that they have no real control over, it seems highly unlikely that Egwene would only contribute only 14 Earth to a link because the Leader can only contribute 14 Earth at least not without the circle losing overall strength ... of course in this scenario it's also likely that Egwene would lead the link if they were going to make Cuendillar
Playing the numbers by arranging for the right set of genetics seems far more likely to me. It would be like a trigger, once Rand's genetic code appeared, the Wheel was able to place the soul of the Dragon in that body. nothing says they have to be genetically identical, merely hold a certain set of genetic markers in common for the body to be capable of displaying the abilities of the Dragon. Who knows there could be millions of people in the world that have the necessary traits to become the Dragon.
The Wheel clearly made arrangements for the right parents to come together for Rand to be born, giving Gitara the Foretelling that Tigrane had to leave Andor and seek out the Maidens, ensuring the timing for Tirgrane to give birth on the slopes of Dragonmount, making sure Tam found Rand and could take him to be raised by the old blood, but be of the ancient blood etc... if there was no worry about genetics (and I'm simply speculating) why would the Pattern go through such lengths to ensure the very specific parents for Rand? Why not simply have a random Maiden become the mother? Why not imbue Galad with the abilities of the Dragon if the father wasn't important?
Seems to me The Wheel arranged for probabilities to create the correct body for the soul it had in the wings.
As for circles, I see what you are saying, and it could very well be the way, but we've not seen any instance of two Channelers working on a weave together. And what happens in a circles where only a man can lead or only a woman can lead? Why wouldn't the skilled individual leading simply grab a handy angreal or sa'angreal to do the task?
It makes no sense that Siuan led the circle to Heal Mat when she is at best an average Healer, why did she at no point shift control to someone more skilled in the area? When the FS plot to gang up on Rand early in the series was afoot there was open discussion of only one individual controlling the link, why not pass control around to most effectively fight Rand with each individual's strengths being put into play? Certainly distrust played some role in that, but why not even discuss strategic opportunities?
I think we view what "abilities" are slightly different. I see this as special by-products of strengths, i.e. Egwene can sense ore in the ground, or Aviendha's reading of ter'angreal or Nynaeve's Listening to the Wind etc... none of these things would be passed along with a Link, but I don't see flow affinity as the same thing. Egwene is strong in Earth (and as such she has special abilities from this strength), she would naturally contribute that strength to any circle she participated in...
I see every Channeler's strength as something akin to a weighted average. If Egwene is a 18 in Earth and a 16 in air there is no reason to believe that she is only passing along 14 Earth to a circle...
Let's quantify what I mean further (all numbers are made up):
Egwene, Aviendha and Elayne Link
Egwene = 18 Earth, 18 Spirit, 16 Air, 15 Water, 13 Fire
Elane = 18 Fire, 18 Air, 16 Water, 16 Earth, 12 Spirit
Aviendha = 18 Water, 18 Air, 15 Spirit, 15 Fire, 14 Earth
In a link they = 48 Earth, 45 Spirit, 52 Air, 49 Water, 46 Fire ...
Swap Metaara for Egwene
Metaara is 18 Water, 18 Air, 16 Spirit, 15 Earth, 13 Fire
in this link they would be 45 Earth, 43 Spirit, 54 Air, 52 Water, 46 Fire
Furthermore what if you replace Egwene with someone like Moiraine?
Moiraine = 12 Air, 11 Water, 9 Spirit, 7 Fire, 6 Earth
Now you have a link that is
33 Earth, 36 Spirit, 48 Air, 45 Water, 40 Fire
Each contributes her proportionate strength in each flow to the circle. When Egwene is leading she can make Cuendillar and sense ores etc ... but Elayne would not be able to do these things as they are special abilities specific to Egwene.
Every individual has a specific set of strengths that they have no real control over, it seems highly unlikely that Egwene would only contribute only 14 Earth to a link because the Leader can only contribute 14 Earth at least not without the circle losing overall strength ... of course in this scenario it's also likely that Egwene would lead the link if they were going to make Cuendillar
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Talents don't make much sense
07/03/2011 09:34:56 AM
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Re: Talents don't make much sense
07/03/2011 03:51:17 PM
- 910 Views
I have a slightly different view on your last two points
07/03/2011 07:30:43 PM
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Re: I have a slightly different view on your last two points
08/03/2011 01:29:46 PM
- 696 Views
thanks for the quote ... truly appreciate it
08/03/2011 05:07:19 PM
- 676 Views
Re: thanks for the quote ... truly appreciate it
08/03/2011 08:59:18 PM
- 723 Views
I don't find it all that complicated of far fetched
09/03/2011 04:34:03 PM
- 585 Views
Re: I don't find it all that complicated of far fetched
10/03/2011 03:00:05 PM
- 704 Views
seems to me a non-sentient entity would be less likely to give abilities to a specific individual
10/03/2011 09:28:36 PM
- 590 Views
One thought on the Sea Folk example
08/03/2011 07:27:15 PM
- 591 Views
also very possible ... I'm just thinking "outloud" so to speak
09/03/2011 04:32:08 PM
- 582 Views
No worries - 'thinking out loud' and going on tangents are my favorite hobbies here
09/03/2011 05:54:42 PM
- 553 Views
I don't think they are supposed to make 'sense', really. Maria gave info about Talents in a Q&A
07/03/2011 04:05:40 PM
- 834 Views
Gateway Talent?
07/03/2011 08:19:12 PM
- 611 Views
Re: Gateway Talent?
08/03/2011 11:15:55 PM
- 684 Views
It doesn't break the rule so much as shows that the rules aren't as universal as we thought
09/03/2011 04:15:20 PM
- 602 Views