Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers?
Iain83 Send a noteboard - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM
Translation is a very good point and one I'd neglected. You're right: I'm essentially judging these authors on characterisation, ideas and structure, rather than language, which may well boost Solzhenitsyn and (depending on the translation) depress the others.
The main thing I dislike about many Russian authors I've read is that the philosophical/moral questions they explore are fairly abstract and idealised. Their characters often seem similarly stylised. This definitely applies to Dostoevsky and to an extent Chekov; even Tolstoy, though his settings and characters are more earthy, his big idea about the impact of individuals on history is quite abstract. I'm not saying these aren't important or that many people don't get a lot from them, but personally I don't (at least not to the extent of appreciating a 500+page novel built around them). CP Snow's exploration of melancholia in The Light and The Dark, or his exploration of the shades of grey in moral choices in The Affair or The New Men I find much more compelling.
In Solzhenitsyn, on the other hand, I find the characters much more compelling - for many, one can see oneself (or others you've met) acting in such a way, if placed in such a circumstance. It probably helps that I find the topic he's covering intrinsically interesting (and one challenging to write about well). In The First Circle, I particularly admire his structure - in many ways the novel reminds me of Catch-22 - in which he gradually builds the realisation that all characters are equally trapped and yet have certain freedoms, with the final closing of the trap at the end sealing things off.
Anyway, not trying to say one is better than the other, but hopefully explaining my opinion. Thank you also for the other recommendations - I've had a quick look on Amazon and will definitely check them out.
The main thing I dislike about many Russian authors I've read is that the philosophical/moral questions they explore are fairly abstract and idealised. Their characters often seem similarly stylised. This definitely applies to Dostoevsky and to an extent Chekov; even Tolstoy, though his settings and characters are more earthy, his big idea about the impact of individuals on history is quite abstract. I'm not saying these aren't important or that many people don't get a lot from them, but personally I don't (at least not to the extent of appreciating a 500+page novel built around them). CP Snow's exploration of melancholia in The Light and The Dark, or his exploration of the shades of grey in moral choices in The Affair or The New Men I find much more compelling.
In Solzhenitsyn, on the other hand, I find the characters much more compelling - for many, one can see oneself (or others you've met) acting in such a way, if placed in such a circumstance. It probably helps that I find the topic he's covering intrinsically interesting (and one challenging to write about well). In The First Circle, I particularly admire his structure - in many ways the novel reminds me of Catch-22 - in which he gradually builds the realisation that all characters are equally trapped and yet have certain freedoms, with the final closing of the trap at the end sealing things off.
Anyway, not trying to say one is better than the other, but hopefully explaining my opinion. Thank you also for the other recommendations - I've had a quick look on Amazon and will definitely check them out.
You're entitled to your opinion, certainly, but that is one of the oddest things I've heard in a long time. Russians usually don't like Solzhenitsyn because of his style, which is heavy and often bad (to my mind). I have found that TV miniseries of his books that follow dialogue exactly have been the best format for taking in his ideas, which are often very interesting, because they strip away the style that I don't like.
Don't forget that, for foreign books, a translation can make or break a book. My opinion is that translation is a necessary evil at best, and so if I can avoid translations, I will. I recently read (and reviewed on the Books board) Madame Bovary and Siddhartha in their original languages, two books which suffer from accusations of bad translations, and with Bovary at least I could see why it might be difficult to translate without losing a lot.
If you're going to read a book, go on amazon and root around the comments about the different translations for at least five minutes and you'll see which translations work the best.
Having said that, have you read Lermontov's Hero of Our Time? Based on your choices, I think you would like it. Turgenev's Fathers and Sons (recently discussed on the Books board) is another good one to try. I do not think you will enjoy Dostoevsky. Pushkin's Eugene Onegin is a book that I would recommend due to its content - it's very good - but it's a story in poem form and poetry is extremely hard to translate. Pushkin's Captain's Daughter is a good prose work. In all cases that I've recommended, the most background you'd need would be about one or two quick wikipedia article reads.
Don't forget that, for foreign books, a translation can make or break a book. My opinion is that translation is a necessary evil at best, and so if I can avoid translations, I will. I recently read (and reviewed on the Books board) Madame Bovary and Siddhartha in their original languages, two books which suffer from accusations of bad translations, and with Bovary at least I could see why it might be difficult to translate without losing a lot.
If you're going to read a book, go on amazon and root around the comments about the different translations for at least five minutes and you'll see which translations work the best.
Having said that, have you read Lermontov's Hero of Our Time? Based on your choices, I think you would like it. Turgenev's Fathers and Sons (recently discussed on the Books board) is another good one to try. I do not think you will enjoy Dostoevsky. Pushkin's Eugene Onegin is a book that I would recommend due to its content - it's very good - but it's a story in poem form and poetry is extremely hard to translate. Pushkin's Captain's Daughter is a good prose work. In all cases that I've recommended, the most background you'd need would be about one or two quick wikipedia article reads.
Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM
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I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer.
21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM
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Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured
22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM
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What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM
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Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM
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For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM*
22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM
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That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen.
23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM
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I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM
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Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM
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That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler.
22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM
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Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a
23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ...
22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM
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Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM
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I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited.
22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM
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That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM
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Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM
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adam roberts reviews
23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM
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And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM*
23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM
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Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking
24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM
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I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM
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Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM
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The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know.
*NM*
22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM
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There are nine, actually...
23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM
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Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM
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Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM
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I hope I am misunderstanding you.
23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM
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Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you.
24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM
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If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM
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Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM
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So wait, style is good?
25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM
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That depends...
23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM
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I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria.
23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM
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the "do you like it" is the most important criterion
23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM
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If you don't mind me asking...
24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM
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I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM
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Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM
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I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM
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Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM
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...
25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM
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It is not a serious question.
25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM
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Is that so?
25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM
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I'm not fixated with Jordan.
25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM
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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him?
25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
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You're conflating two things.
25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM
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All right, now we're getting somewhere.
26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM
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Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity.
26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM
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Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM*
26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM
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No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered.
25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM
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Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM
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I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you.
25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM
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Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic"
28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM
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Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly
23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM
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Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM
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Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM
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Of course people read for pleasure.
23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM
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Ok...
24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM
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"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument.
24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM
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I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"?
24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM
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Among living writers?
24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM
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My list would be similar...
26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM
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That was a very good list.
26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM
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Re: That was a very good list.
27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM
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Oh, and another question
27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM
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Re: Oh, and another question
01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM
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I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM
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You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers?
27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM
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Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers?
02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM
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He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM*
27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM
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