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Re: Oh, and another question DomA Send a noteboard - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM
Why is it odd to think of the Pléiade editions as hardcovers? They're listed as relié and certainly have nice leather covers. I wish the paper were thicker and the books bigger, but they are still very nice books.


I love them. Their small size is actually part of their attraction for me. I find them very comfortable to hold and carry to read anywhere, despite their length.

The fun is just semantics, really. Much is always made of how supple the Pléiade covers are, so it's funny to see the English label "hardcover" applied to them.

but for French books you either have cheap books or Pléiade and nothing in between (with a few rare exceptions).


Yes and no. Paperbacks aren't necessarily cheaply made - some of the "grands formats" from French editors are printed on very high quality paper and are bound (cousus) - not glued like it's done in the US, despite having paperbacks. I was handed down by members of my family several old volumes from la Blanche (Gallimard's main collection) and they still look really good despite being 40-50 years old. The French "grands formats" (I think you call those Trade) are in general of higher quality than their US equivalent (I find the paper used for the big US paperbacks usually fairly cheap. The quality of the mass market paperbacks is also much lower, most of them similar to the very cheap PB collections like J'ai Lu). I think I mentionned this to you long ago (or maybe not to you, on this MB in any case...) but there's more than economics involved (some French bookclubs do put out US style rigid cover editions - mostly of american translations - and sell them for the same price as the regular editions, so it's not really an economic issue, I think). The French simply prefer supple to rigid covers, and we do prefer smaller (and lighter) books in general. When the paper covers were introduced they were rapidly adopted - even a high end collection like La Pléiade has kept on purpose the size of the "livres de poche" the young French readers loved so much and sought to make its high quality covers thin and supple. We have so few real hardcovers (for literature, anyway) because there's no demand for them. A lot of people around me actually really dislike American hardcovers. They find them cumbersome to handle and heavy, and not very attractive with or without their dust jackets. They also find they take an awful lot of shelf space (it's true enough, and though personally I don't hate US hardcovers, I buy less and less now because they eat too much of my living space) and they dislike how cumbersome they are to carry out of home. I had a discussion not very long ago with a friend who hates US hardcovers, and his argument was that they're just way too sturdy for nothing and unappealing cheap and mass produced imitations of old style binding, sometimes of fairly low quality (very average printing, cheap binding).

When the French put out hardcover editions, which is rarely, they are high end products and much greater care is taken in making them attractive objects. Omnibus is one editor that releases its books like that (but they're not from authors that interest you - a lot are translations, or anthologies. Many Dumas novels are available in that collection).

If you ever come across a nice hardcover edition of Stendhal's Chartreuse de Parme or Hugo's Quatrevingt-treize, please let me know.


Keep an eye on used books, not necessarily antique but pre-1950 editions. I don't think there's any bound edition of either in print, but there will be older editions (typically they'll be leather or imitation leather, the fake-clothe/cardboard covers were never much to the French taste in binding). They're relatively rare for classics now - again, no real demand for those in France. The other thing is that those in France who love nice books like the pricey high end stuff with very sober classic design (and so they hunt mostly for antique editions...), they wouldn't be happy at all with the mass-produced US style hardcovers.

Edit: there are exceptions, sectors where rigid covers and bound books are the norm in French edition. The first is for reference books that are handled a lot. Dictionaries, grammars and such are commonly published that way. Another exception is for children books, and schoolbooks/textbooks too. Yet another exception is for "comics" (bande dessinée). Finally, you'll find US style binding in most public and school libraries. They're not different editions, the libraries just bind the books themselves with rigid cardboard covers.

This message last edited by DomA on 01/03/2011 at 04:00:57 AM
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3204 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1596 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1234 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1100 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1197 Views
Oh, it really depends. - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 958 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 774 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1561 Views
Thank you. - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1303 Views
Well Said! - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1223 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 1605 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1287 Views
Not particularly. - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1388 Views
Agreed. - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1170 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1145 Views
Amen *NM* - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 763 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2013 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1203 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1260 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1379 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1332 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 682 Views
There are nine, actually... - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1383 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1080 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1227 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1167 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1008 Views
So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1412 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1055 Views
I'm not trolling - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1091 Views
That depends... - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1302 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1165 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1161 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1297 Views
Not for quality of writing. - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1107 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 748 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1213 Views
If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 992 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1105 Views
I still don't get it. - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1003 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1054 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 989 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1153 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1202 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1116 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 778 Views
... - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1066 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 914 Views
It is not a serious question. - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1049 Views
How so? - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1191 Views
I have every right to use that tone. - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1127 Views
Is that so? - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1125 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1150 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1191 Views
You're conflating two things. - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1163 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1087 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 681 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 916 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 698 Views
Glad to hear that. - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1000 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 752 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1075 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1237 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 602 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 639 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 733 Views
Re: ... - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1101 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1123 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1083 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1214 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1051 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1224 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1009 Views
Ok... - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1044 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1120 Views
*NM* - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 641 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 986 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1134 Views
Among living writers? - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1171 Views
No Rushdie? - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1068 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1014 Views
My list would be similar... - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1278 Views
That was a very good list. - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1116 Views
Re: That was a very good list. - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1162 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 953 Views
Oh, and another question - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 960 Views
Re: Oh, and another question - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1118 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1004 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1143 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1213 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1129 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1222 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1240 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1151 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1390 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 770 Views

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