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I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 Send a noteboard - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM
Almost all of the authors you've mentioned are in a very similar style - highly descriptive or even poetic prose, deep imagery, often long with many side-branchings and digressions. Now I'm not saying that these authors aren't great - but it's not the only mark of greatness. Consider the ability to set a scene in spare and tight prose, to bring characters to life vividly in a few words, to make the reader consider and rethink a social or moral issue - is doing these well not worthy of greatness? Take Harper Lee, for example - To Kill a Mockingbird is very different from those you mention, but excluding it feels like saying Picasso's Guernica is not great beacuse it's not a Monet.

[For the record, whilst I enjoy the Wheel of Time a lot, even in modern fantasy it's only one of my favourites rather than a clear winner and, good as he is, I wouldn't claim Jordan will go down through the ages].

I'll admit to having read only half of those you mention. I'm not argue against any of them (any book still admired centuries on is likely to be 'great' regardless of my personal taste). But those I'd personally rate of them are Marquez, Eco, Dante, Orwell, Huxley, Dumas and Swift. I disagree with you about Steinbeck and Hemingway - I think both are consistently excellent - but agree in not thinking much of Joyce or the Brontes. I've also never personally been able to see the appeal of Salinger, Rushdie, Cervantes or any Russian author with the exception of Solzhenitsyn - Tolstoy and Bulgakov were OK, but I struggled through; I never managed to finish any others.

My own list would look quite different and I think broader in style. From the top of my head, I'd push for:

[b]20th Century[/b]
- Vikram Seth: I'd say An Equal Music was even better than A Suitable Boy.
- C. P. Snow: Sparseness of prose that allows him to depict characters and their choices with great depth.
- Harper Lee: Incredibly powerfully written and accessibly moral call to arms.
- Steinbeck and Hemingway, as discussed aboe.
- A. S. Byatt: for the beauty of her language, both poetry and prose, in Possession.
- Herman Wouk: The Caine Mutiny is a masterpiece in claustrophobia; The Winds of War/War and Remembrance a similar mastery of the epic, whilst Marjorie Morningstar and A Hole in Texas show he can write well, if not to the same level, in radically different styles.
- Orwell: Again, very powerfully written and sparse prose.
- Tolkein: I can (and have) read Lord of the Rings over and and over just for the richness of the language and description.
- Solzhenitsyn: The First Circle and A Day in the Life of... are opposites in style and equally strong.
- Douglas Hofstadter: comes close to blurring the edge between fiction and non-fiction in his cross-disciplinary writing (Godel Escher Bach being the most well-known).

[b]19th Century[/b]
- Dumas: As you've described.
- Kipling: One who literary people love to hate, but his plots, characters and vividness of setting shine through - and he did it for children, adults, short stories, novels and poetry.
- Gaskell: Like the Brontes tried to do, but she succeeded.
- Austen: Genuinely funny and moving.
- Chesterton: For his prolificness and range of style from non-fiction books and essays, through popular detective to Orwellian dystopia.
- Verne: Not just his imagination, but for his characters.
- Conan Doyle: Each story is masterfully crafted.
(I find Dickens quite mixed)

[b]The very old[/b]
- Swift: as you described
- Ovid and Virgil: both superior to Homer in my opinion; genuinely enjoyable and gripping.
(I guess I've not read that much of the very old).

I'd welcome your views on these - particularly if you'd consider them 'not great', I'd ask why.
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3204 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1597 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1234 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1100 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1198 Views
Oh, it really depends. - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 958 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 775 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1561 Views
Thank you. - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1303 Views
Well Said! - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1223 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 1606 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1287 Views
Not particularly. - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1388 Views
Agreed. - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1170 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1145 Views
Amen *NM* - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 764 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2013 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1204 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1261 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1379 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1333 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 683 Views
There are nine, actually... - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1383 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1080 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1228 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1167 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1008 Views
So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1413 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1056 Views
I'm not trolling - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1091 Views
That depends... - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1302 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1166 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1161 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1297 Views
Not for quality of writing. - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1108 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 749 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1214 Views
If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 992 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1105 Views
I still don't get it. - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1003 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1054 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 989 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1153 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1203 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1116 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 779 Views
... - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1067 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 915 Views
It is not a serious question. - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1050 Views
How so? - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1191 Views
I have every right to use that tone. - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1128 Views
Is that so? - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1125 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1150 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1191 Views
You're conflating two things. - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1163 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1088 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 682 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 917 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 698 Views
Glad to hear that. - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1001 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 753 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1075 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1238 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 602 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 639 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 733 Views
Re: ... - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1102 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1123 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1083 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1215 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1051 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1225 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1010 Views
Ok... - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1044 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1120 Views
*NM* - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 642 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 986 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1134 Views
Among living writers? - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1172 Views
No Rushdie? - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1069 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1014 Views
My list would be similar... - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1278 Views
That was a very good list. - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1116 Views
Re: That was a very good list. - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1162 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 954 Views
Oh, and another question - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 960 Views
Re: Oh, and another question - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1118 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1004 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1144 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1214 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1130 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1222 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1241 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1151 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1390 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 771 Views

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