Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM*
Gerbeaud Send a noteboard - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM
I don't know if he is a good writer or a bad writer and to be frank I really don't care. I enjoy him, when I enjoy very few authors. Things that other people cite as weaknesses, I enjoy.
I take any critique of any author with truckloads of salt. EVERYBODY thinks they have above average tastes and intelligence when that is obviously impossible.
Some people make up crazy metrics and apply them inconsistently. (My favorite one of these is RJs supposed over fascination with clothing and description in general. True, RJ intersperses a lot of 'her dress is yellow slashed with green, etc.' But taken together, I doubt it even comes close to comparing to Tolkien's obsession with describing landscapes not to mention the elvish poems and songs.) Other people have even weirder criterion such as the percentage of main characters that die. Others confuse being bored with boring. (If I didn't like it, it must be boring.)
Well said. I enjoy WOT. There are not many books/series that I have read more than once but WOT is definitely in that category.
In the end, though, I don't even trust the professional critics. My criteria are things like 'do I enjoy it' or 'does it give me something to think about and talk about' or 'does it help me to see people and the 'real' world better' or 'is it re-readable again and again and again. No Oxford don can tell me how I am going to feel no matter how intelligent and knowledgeable he is.
Another thing to remember is that anyone who wants to inflate their ego will ALWAYS negatively criticize an author. Any critic who is always positive will quickly develop the reputation of a shill and a sell-out. A critic that is always negative will be thought as having discriminating taste. (Its not a bug; its a feature.) Add that to the fact that the vast majority (maybe all books) have a lot more people who dislike (or are apathetic) to them than those who like them. Finally, as a general rule people prefer negative reviews to positive. People may not like to see car wrecks but neither can they take their eyes off of them.
It is simply much easier to tear down an author with made up statistics and opinions dressed as fact then it is to admit that it is your personal opinion.
RJ like all authors is what he is. If you enjoy him don't let anyone's supposed knowledgeable criticism keep you from enjoying his work. If you don't like him, read someone else. If you want to criticize him, go ahead.
I take any critique of any author with truckloads of salt. EVERYBODY thinks they have above average tastes and intelligence when that is obviously impossible.
Some people make up crazy metrics and apply them inconsistently. (My favorite one of these is RJs supposed over fascination with clothing and description in general. True, RJ intersperses a lot of 'her dress is yellow slashed with green, etc.' But taken together, I doubt it even comes close to comparing to Tolkien's obsession with describing landscapes not to mention the elvish poems and songs.) Other people have even weirder criterion such as the percentage of main characters that die. Others confuse being bored with boring. (If I didn't like it, it must be boring.)
Well said. I enjoy WOT. There are not many books/series that I have read more than once but WOT is definitely in that category.
In the end, though, I don't even trust the professional critics. My criteria are things like 'do I enjoy it' or 'does it give me something to think about and talk about' or 'does it help me to see people and the 'real' world better' or 'is it re-readable again and again and again. No Oxford don can tell me how I am going to feel no matter how intelligent and knowledgeable he is.
Another thing to remember is that anyone who wants to inflate their ego will ALWAYS negatively criticize an author. Any critic who is always positive will quickly develop the reputation of a shill and a sell-out. A critic that is always negative will be thought as having discriminating taste. (Its not a bug; its a feature.) Add that to the fact that the vast majority (maybe all books) have a lot more people who dislike (or are apathetic) to them than those who like them. Finally, as a general rule people prefer negative reviews to positive. People may not like to see car wrecks but neither can they take their eyes off of them.
It is simply much easier to tear down an author with made up statistics and opinions dressed as fact then it is to admit that it is your personal opinion.
RJ like all authors is what he is. If you enjoy him don't let anyone's supposed knowledgeable criticism keep you from enjoying his work. If you don't like him, read someone else. If you want to criticize him, go ahead.
Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM
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I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer.
21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM
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Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured
22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM
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What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM
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Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM
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For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM*
22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM
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That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen.
23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM
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I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM
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Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM
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That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler.
22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM
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Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a
23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ...
22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM
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Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM
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I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited.
22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM
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That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM
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Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM
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adam roberts reviews
23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM
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And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM*
23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM
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Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking
24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM
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I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM
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Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM
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The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know.
*NM*
22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM
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There are nine, actually...
23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM
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Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM
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Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM
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I hope I am misunderstanding you.
23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM
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Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you.
24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM
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If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM
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Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM
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So wait, style is good?
25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM
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That depends...
23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM
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I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria.
23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM
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the "do you like it" is the most important criterion
23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM
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If you don't mind me asking...
24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM
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I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM
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Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM
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I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM
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Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM
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...
25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM
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It is not a serious question.
25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM
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Is that so?
25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM
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I'm not fixated with Jordan.
25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM
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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him?
25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
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You're conflating two things.
25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM
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All right, now we're getting somewhere.
26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM
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Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity.
26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM
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Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM*
26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM
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No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered.
25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM
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Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM
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I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you.
25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM
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Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic"
28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM
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Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly
23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM
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Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM
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Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM
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Of course people read for pleasure.
23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM
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Ok...
24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM
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"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument.
24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM
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I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"?
24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM
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Among living writers?
24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM
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My list would be similar...
26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM
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That was a very good list.
26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM
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Re: That was a very good list.
27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM
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Oh, and another question
27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM
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Re: Oh, and another question
01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM
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I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM
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He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM*
27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM
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