Active Users:1122 Time:23/11/2024 12:15:52 AM
Still disagree... _Big_Easy_ Send a noteboard - 08/02/2011 06:11:38 AM
You mean Bel'al, whose pet Black sisters referred to him as "Great Master Bel'al" when they captured Nynaeve & Elayne? And even if we stipulate this rather absurd point, those are all the later, secretive ones. Rahvin, Sammael & Bel'al turn up first because they're the kind who go for public rule, and leading nations, even if they use a different name. Regardless of what Semirahge and Mesaana might do several books later, we plainly see Rahvin give orders to Comar without the slightest disguise (unless his appearance throughout his run in the series is a disguise - but that's the only way he ever appears, and in his PoV he says nothing about being in disguise), and Lord Elgar (later seen among Rand's court in Caemlyn) attends him with no efforts at concealment either. The important things, at that point in the series, the Forsaken were not pulling these sorts of tricks, and Rahvin, Sammael and Bel'al were all shown to be operating in a similar fashion - they take control of a nation by inveigling themselves into the political structure. They openly and publicly weild power. By contrast, the two we see concealing their identity (both of whom are known to their minions by their names) do not hold actual power in their cover identities. Danelle holds no position of authority in the Tower, and was even eased out of Elaida's inner circle of coup-plotters. Anath might have had license to back-talk and strike Tuon, but she too had no real authority of her own or borrowed from a boss, as the sul'dam points out when she is captured. By contrast, even if their true identities were unknown, Gaebrial, Samon and Brend were generally known as important men and leaders of their nations, if not the de facto rulers. While this proves nothing about Sammael's or Bel'al's habits that might expose their identities, it still goes to show that they have more in common with the man who was accidentally overheard by a guy with no powers who wasn't even trying, than the secretive behavior you ascribe as typical of the Forsaken.


The Black Sisters do seem to know Samon was Bel'al. You are right on that account.

But Elegar actually *faints* when Rand mentions (not told for the first time, just mentions again) that Gaebril was Rahvin; thus it stands to reason that Rahvin, as well as the "secretive" Forsaken, uses his real face but not his real name.

With Sammael, I could see him going Bel'al's route, where *MAYBE* trusted highly placed Darkfriends know his true identity.

However, we don't know that Bel'al told regular Darkfriends his name. We only know that he told members of the Black Ajah, who have sworn Oaths they cannot break not to betray information about the Dark (via a certain less-than-black sister from KoD).

Yeah, of all that Loial tells her, that nickname is one of maybe two facts she did not know, and she even says that the nickname fits with other stuff. She was plainly NOT totally ignorant of him before that scene. And given the parallels with those two and with Rhavin, it should be obvious how a woman whose very first learned ability with the One Power was eavesdropping could have tumbled onto their secret identities. 8}


I think there is a big difference between Mat's eavesdropping on Rahvin through a window (not using the Power) and Moiraine using the Power to eavesdrop in a Forsaken's homebase, where they likely have wards to sense both halves of the Power, since they fear each other as much as they do Rand and Co.
Reply to message
Question about Rand and Lanfear's battle before Moiraine's game-saving tackle, and other ?s - 04/02/2011 01:05:56 AM 1652 Views
I thought of another... - 04/02/2011 01:10:23 AM 883 Views
Re: Question about Rand and Lanfear's battle before Moiraine's game-saving tackle, and other ?s - 04/02/2011 01:52:55 AM 1009 Views
Re: Question about Rand and Lanfear's battle before Moiraine's game-saving tackle, and other ?s - 06/02/2011 08:15:43 PM 815 Views
You're misapplying practices. - 07/02/2011 01:08:22 PM 771 Views
Still disagree... - 08/02/2011 06:11:38 AM 703 Views
Re: Still disagree... - 08/02/2011 11:58:19 AM 708 Views
Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? - 09/02/2011 05:45:13 AM 785 Views
Have YOU? - 15/02/2011 12:47:39 AM 961 Views
She doesn't have to overhear them to know that something is fishy - 21/02/2011 10:35:41 AM 680 Views
There are ways of detecting a man's weaves. - 04/02/2011 04:49:55 AM 747 Views
Some ideas - 04/02/2011 08:26:09 AM 700 Views
No, I think RJ just didn't think it through, seeing as Rand sliced Lanfear's invisible weaves too... - 04/02/2011 11:42:38 AM 729 Views
Re: It might not be that hard - 04/02/2011 12:20:02 PM 782 Views
it's different - 04/02/2011 02:21:44 PM 732 Views
So what stopped Lanfear from flicking him against the skull with a surprise club of Air... - 04/02/2011 02:33:53 PM 785 Views
nothing - 04/02/2011 02:45:52 PM 755 Views
Gestures and Weaves go hand in hand and since flows originate from the body you can logically - 05/02/2011 05:45:00 PM 747 Views
In general, only third age Aes Sedai gesture when they weave - it's a block imposed by training. - 07/02/2011 06:20:33 PM 788 Views
Not true - 08/02/2011 01:54:17 PM 591 Views
Your example proved my point - LTT only said that it was needed for certain weaves. - 08/02/2011 04:20:28 PM 1519 Views
Hmm... - 08/02/2011 05:38:13 PM 682 Views
It's a flawed and incorrect given all the examples we've seen in the books. - 08/02/2011 08:36:32 PM 577 Views
Verin could not see the weaves - 08/02/2011 10:16:56 PM 676 Views
Also... - 08/02/2011 11:35:20 PM 584 Views
Well, that's partially the point I'm bringing up. - 09/02/2011 03:19:07 PM 625 Views
I never said she could - I said she sensed them, and felt the woman's channeling. - 09/02/2011 03:04:00 PM 616 Views
I think this is the crux of the matter - 09/02/2011 03:32:18 PM 694 Views

Reply to Message