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No Sidious Send a noteboard - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM
There's no clear pecking order.

Mesaana had to convince Moridin that Semirhage wasn't trying to kill Rand. Clearly its not difficult for anyone to believe. Its silly to think that these 'levels' even exist. There's a really good chance that none of the female Forsaken know how strong the males are and vice-versa, and is there even any evidence that Demandred has been near to Sammael while he's holding his maximum. Not even WE know if Demandred is stronger than Sammael, we just assume it to be so.

To base Forsaken strength on their statements is insane, unless they directly compare their power, which has only happened on a handful of occasions. Graendal is factually the deadliest of the Forsaken ... She's openly killed two of them, and under other circumstances she could have killed Moghedien, Cyndane and even Sammael.

Graendal wants to 'throw herself on Demandred's mercy' yet she calls him a fool to his face, and openly threatens to kill both Lanfear and Sammael, and she has no problem plotting the demise of the greatest of them all, Moridin.

This pecking order is an illusion, and would only occur if you lined them up in some sort of Mortal Kombat round to see who's stronger. Practically all of them have real chances to best the others. I fail to see how strength levels can create definitive tiers between these channelers, especially when we've seen Cyndane fight enormous odds related to strength, and Graendal prepared to take on both Moghedien and Cyndane. Its like saying that Sheriam is weaker than Moiraine and that makes a pecking order that shows how Sheriam will always lose to Moiraine and 'respects' her because of it. Meanwhile, down the line, Verin could give Moiraine a run for her money and not necessarily lose either.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2288 Views
Huh? - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1226 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1244 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1175 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1179 Views
- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1046 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1154 Views
Bullshit... - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1025 Views
Unbiased view... - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1162 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 556 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 541 Views
Don't agree - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1139 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1021 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1030 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1033 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 969 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1068 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1078 Views
here ya go they were all Forced - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 946 Views
Nope... - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1030 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1200 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1120 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1115 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1043 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1070 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1054 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 876 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 565 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1098 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 946 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1008 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 975 Views
How... - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 931 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1084 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1035 Views
Got you now... - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1003 Views
You're clearly delusional... - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1008 Views
You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1025 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1088 Views
Ok... - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 952 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 985 Views
Re: How... - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1146 Views
They're very close now... - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1106 Views
That is unfortunately not true... - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1092 Views
It is... - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 940 Views
Re: It is... - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1195 Views
Yup... - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 966 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1360 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1031 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1293 Views
No - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1075 Views
CLAPS *NM* - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 593 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 962 Views
Indeed - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 960 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1056 Views
I agree with you here - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 966 Views
I don't think that's true.. - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 907 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1184 Views
I think this is a no brainer - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1127 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 949 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 944 Views
Disagree... - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1023 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 919 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 901 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 922 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 975 Views
Nynaeve's strength - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1019 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 653 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1105 Views
Minor quibbles aside... - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1100 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 916 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1048 Views
shrugs - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 970 Views
Re: shrugs - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 994 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 902 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 935 Views
Thanks for clarifying - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 887 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 939 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 510 Views
Cool! *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 540 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 899 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1293 Views
well... - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1031 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 951 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 665 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1004 Views
Yup. - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 914 Views
Trivial - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 935 Views
Uhhh... no... - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 836 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 999 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1015 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 960 Views
wrong - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1048 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 937 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 983 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 609 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 526 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 831 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1147 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 930 Views
And a 1000 years ago... - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 960 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1049 Views
Circular reasoning... - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 989 Views
Agreed. - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1042 Views
Agree. *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 610 Views
agreed *NM* - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 624 Views

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