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Got you now... Shannow Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM
Point 1: Egwene has been forced by the Seanchan to very close to her full strength. Nynaeve has not. Therefore, Egwene is MUCH closer to her full strength than Nynaeve is at that point in time.

Point 2: Elayne is already stronger than most Aes Sedai at that point in time.

Point 3: Siuan says that at full strength before her stilling, she was able to lift 3 times her body weight into the Air. While holding them both shielded, Rand still lifts BOTH of them into the Air simultaneously, thus lifting two thirds of Siuan's maximum lifting ability. This while women are known to be stronger in Air and able to make longer Air bridges etc. And this while Rand is lifting two separate weights with two simultaneous weaves - far more difficult than one person of twice the weight. PLUS he lifted two tables into the Air as well and made them dance across the room. Altogether, he is lifting far more than Siuan's maximum lifting ability, and he is doing it with 4 separate weaves!

Bottomline, Rand is shielding both of them, and still is able to exceed a feat requiring the full strength of Moiraine/Siuan at the same time.

Therefore, he is shielding Egwene - who significantly exceeds Moiraine's strength at the time, he is shielding Elayne - who approximates a strong Aes Sedai at the time, and he is lifting weight that would require greater strength than Moiraine all on its own. This while splitting the flows that are doing so.

That already means he significantly stronger than two Moiraine's PLUS another strong Aes Sedai. Those feats alone probably puts him in the 3 x Moiraine's strength bracket.

AND then he spins a half dozen or so other weaves as well. All without even breaking a sweat.

Is Moghedien able to equal that? If she can then she is about 3 times as strong as Moiraine, about 5 times as strong as an average Aes Sedai, and about 9 times as strong as Dagian.

Are you happy with placing Moghedien that high? Because that would mean that she is about 50% stronger than Egwene, who is only equal to about twice Moiraine's strength.

Thank you.
This message last edited by Shannow on 03/02/2011 at 11:34:12 PM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2223 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1156 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1174 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1105 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1106 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 986 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1075 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 957 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1071 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 529 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 515 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1087 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 939 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 955 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 940 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 897 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 987 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1004 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 871 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 957 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1136 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1046 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1047 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 973 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 992 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 989 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 804 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 535 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1019 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 885 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 944 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 893 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 856 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1010 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 958 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 936 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 939 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 931 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1022 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 883 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 921 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 974 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1081 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1030 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1014 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 866 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1121 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 874 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1291 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 959 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1226 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 999 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 565 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 891 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 882 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 980 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 893 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 831 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 795 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1093 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1039 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 880 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 877 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 953 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 858 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 858 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 843 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 896 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 951 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 622 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1031 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1030 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 843 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 979 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 905 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 906 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 832 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 886 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 804 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 865 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 480 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 523 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 819 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1212 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 955 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 875 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 627 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 932 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 852 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 868 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 767 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 921 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 952 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 874 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 985 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 855 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 914 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 576 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 502 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 754 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1067 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 861 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 885 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 976 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 921 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1169 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 999 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 963 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 584 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 601 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 990 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 930 Views
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