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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM
Sidious's recent thread has unlocked a direct comparison between the One Power strengths of some of the Forsaken, and once again Nynaeve is the key to a definitive answer in this respect.

Without going into a lengthy post, we can use Nynaeve as a measuring stick to demonstrate how Moghedien, Asmodean and Semirhage compare to one another in EFFECTIVE strength.

Basically, it goes like this:

Nynaeve is still significantly below her full potential in tSR, when she EXACTLY matches Moghedien in strength.

At the end of the same book, Rand EXACTLY matches Asmodean in strength. Neither Rand or Nynaeve are at their full strength yet at this point.

Egwene acknowledges in the SAME book that Nynaeve is weaker than Rand at that point in time - although we didn't need Egwene's statement to grasp that fact, given the status of Rand vs Nynaeve in the channeling pecking order from a thematic perspective.

Therefore, we can definitively state that, as at the time of tSR:

Nynaeve = Moghedien
Rand = Asmodean
Rand > Nynaeve

Therefore Asmodean > Moghedien.

Conclusion: Asmodean is without a doubt stronger in the Power than Moghedien. And we are referring to effective strength here, because when Nynaeve and Rand were compared, Egwene could not sense the QUANTITY of saidin he was channeling, but could merely judge the EFFECT that he was able to achieve (simultaneously shielding both her and Elayne while channeling a dozen flows at the same time).

Thefefore if Rand's EFFECTIVE strength exceeded Nynaeve's at that point, then Asmodean's effective strength exceeds Moghedien's.

Furthermore, since it has been confirmed that Nynaeve and Semirhage are VERY close to one another in strength, we can also state without fear of contradiction that the difference in strength between Modhedien and Semirhage is exactly the same as difference between Nynaeve's strength in Book 4 and Nynaeve's full potential strength.

Since Nynaeve is still growing in strength 3 or 4 books later, it seems pretty clear that the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage is considerable.

In fact, as late as POD, Elayne states that neither she nor Nynaeve had yet reached their full potential strength. That is a long time after Nynaeve matched Moghedien in strength.

This message last edited by Shannow on 03/02/2011 at 03:58:12 PM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2299 Views
Huh? - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1237 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1254 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1189 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1191 Views
- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1061 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1165 Views
Bullshit... - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1038 Views
Unbiased view... - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1175 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 562 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 547 Views
Don't agree - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1153 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1037 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1043 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1048 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 984 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1085 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1091 Views
here ya go they were all Forced - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 960 Views
Nope... - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1042 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1213 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1132 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1131 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1055 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1081 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1067 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 889 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 571 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1111 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 959 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1020 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 990 Views
How... - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 944 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1101 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1057 Views
Got you now... - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1016 Views
You're clearly delusional... - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1019 Views
You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1042 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1099 Views
Ok... - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 966 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 997 Views
Re: How... - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1159 Views
They're very close now... - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1120 Views
That is unfortunately not true... - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1108 Views
It is... - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 955 Views
Re: It is... - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1208 Views
Yup... - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 980 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1372 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1051 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1312 Views
No - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1090 Views
CLAPS *NM* - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 600 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 973 Views
Indeed - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 973 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1068 Views
I agree with you here - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 980 Views
I don't think that's true.. - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 922 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1196 Views
I think this is a no brainer - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1138 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 962 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 957 Views
Disagree... - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1040 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 935 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 912 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 934 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 988 Views
Nynaeve's strength - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1029 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 659 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1121 Views
Minor quibbles aside... - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1110 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 927 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1062 Views
shrugs - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 986 Views
Re: shrugs - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1014 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 915 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 947 Views
Thanks for clarifying - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 901 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 952 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 515 Views
Cool! *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 548 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 915 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1306 Views
well... - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1043 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 963 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 670 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1016 Views
Yup. - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 926 Views
Trivial - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 947 Views
Uhhh... no... - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 849 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1016 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1028 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 976 Views
wrong - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1061 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 950 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 995 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 613 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 530 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 847 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1173 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 942 Views
And a 1000 years ago... - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 976 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1060 Views
Circular reasoning... - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1002 Views
Agreed. - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1056 Views
Agree. *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 614 Views
agreed *NM* - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 629 Views

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