...then it does not mitigate Nynaeve's strength advantage over Daigian at all.
There are sufficient unknowns to make the Rand/Logain comparison completely reasonable. And no matter how you look at it, it still does not change the Nynaeve/Daigian strength relationship.
You cannot talk away every bit of evidence that disproves your view as an inconsistency.
So far, the three most notable examples where you have done this, are the Nynaeve/Egwene bonfire vs candle comparison, Aviendha's comment that Egwene is close to twice as strong as Moiraine, and now the Daigian/Nynaeve strength comparison.
Let us in this post only focus on the Nynaeve/Daigian comparison.
Your issue is that Rand's shield was held by 4 women while Logain could possibly have broken free from 5 women.
You suggest that because this is inconsistent with Rand being stronger than Logain, it therefore is an unreliable quote and has to be discarded - like the other quotes that don't fit into your theory.
Well, before we just dismiss a quote out of hand to suit your views, let's first see if it can be accommodated within the evidence, and whether RJ may have known what he was writing about after all.
Point 1:
We don't know the comparative strengths or shielding talents of the two groups of Aes Sedai involved in shielding Rand and Logain respectively. It may well be that the 4 women shielding Rand were as strong as the 5 women shielding Logain.
Point 2:
We are told numerous times during the series - and in particular detail during FoH - that your ability to hold the One Power decreases roughly in step with the level of physical exhaustion/weakness you are subject to. Well, Rand is in a particularly weak state at the time that he tries to break free from the box. He has been tortured, dehydrated and physically weakened for a number of days, and is barely able to walk when he launches his bid for freedom.
Point 3:
Even in this weakened state, Rand is overly cautious, and does not want to launch his bid for freedom until he is assured of success. Hence, he does not even want to TRY to break free when the shield is down to 4 women, even though he might have succeeded.
Point 4:
Do we know for a fact that Rand IS indeed stronger than Logain at this point in time? A book later Sammael is still described as roughly equal to him. Rand is only compared to Logain in KoD, AFTER the Cleansing, which may have increased his strength significantly compared to his level in LoC, when the two shielding events took place.
Based on the above 4 points, it is easy to show that the quote can very easily fit with all the evidence we have.
But here's the beauty of it: Even if the women shielding Logain were weaker than those holding Rand, they would all STILL be MUCH stronger than Daigian, who is less than half as strong as an average Aes Sedai.
So it is pretty much guaranteed that the women shielding Logain would all have been between 1.5 and 2 times stronger than Dagian, AT THE LEAST.
Even if they only averaged 1.5 times Dagian's strength (making all five of them weaker than the average Aes Sedai, which is very unlikely) then 5 of them would STILL have equalled 7.5 Daigians. Meaning that roughly 8 Daigians would be a minimum level for Nynaeve's strength.
8 Daigians. Think about that for a moment.
If Nynaeve is 8 times as strong as Daigian, then we KNOW that she is 4 times stronger than the average Aes Sedai.
We ALSO know that Moiraine is about 3 times as strong as Daigian. Meaning that if Nynaeve is 8 times Daigian's strength, then she would be just under 3 times Moiraine's strength.
And here's the cherry on top. This is Nynaeve's strength as at Lord of Chaos. Which is still not her full strength, as we are told she is still not at her full potential a few books later than that!
The picture is pretty clear.
This fits with the Bonfire / Candle comparison and every other quote placing Nynaeve on a totally different level to Egwene.
This is evidence that really cannot be talked away, no matter how much you want it to be wrong.
There are sufficient unknowns to make the Rand/Logain comparison completely reasonable. And no matter how you look at it, it still does not change the Nynaeve/Daigian strength relationship.
You cannot talk away every bit of evidence that disproves your view as an inconsistency.
So far, the three most notable examples where you have done this, are the Nynaeve/Egwene bonfire vs candle comparison, Aviendha's comment that Egwene is close to twice as strong as Moiraine, and now the Daigian/Nynaeve strength comparison.
Let us in this post only focus on the Nynaeve/Daigian comparison.
Your issue is that Rand's shield was held by 4 women while Logain could possibly have broken free from 5 women.
You suggest that because this is inconsistent with Rand being stronger than Logain, it therefore is an unreliable quote and has to be discarded - like the other quotes that don't fit into your theory.
Well, before we just dismiss a quote out of hand to suit your views, let's first see if it can be accommodated within the evidence, and whether RJ may have known what he was writing about after all.
Point 1:
We don't know the comparative strengths or shielding talents of the two groups of Aes Sedai involved in shielding Rand and Logain respectively. It may well be that the 4 women shielding Rand were as strong as the 5 women shielding Logain.
Point 2:
We are told numerous times during the series - and in particular detail during FoH - that your ability to hold the One Power decreases roughly in step with the level of physical exhaustion/weakness you are subject to. Well, Rand is in a particularly weak state at the time that he tries to break free from the box. He has been tortured, dehydrated and physically weakened for a number of days, and is barely able to walk when he launches his bid for freedom.
Point 3:
Even in this weakened state, Rand is overly cautious, and does not want to launch his bid for freedom until he is assured of success. Hence, he does not even want to TRY to break free when the shield is down to 4 women, even though he might have succeeded.
Point 4:
Do we know for a fact that Rand IS indeed stronger than Logain at this point in time? A book later Sammael is still described as roughly equal to him. Rand is only compared to Logain in KoD, AFTER the Cleansing, which may have increased his strength significantly compared to his level in LoC, when the two shielding events took place.
Based on the above 4 points, it is easy to show that the quote can very easily fit with all the evidence we have.
But here's the beauty of it: Even if the women shielding Logain were weaker than those holding Rand, they would all STILL be MUCH stronger than Daigian, who is less than half as strong as an average Aes Sedai.
So it is pretty much guaranteed that the women shielding Logain would all have been between 1.5 and 2 times stronger than Dagian, AT THE LEAST.
Even if they only averaged 1.5 times Dagian's strength (making all five of them weaker than the average Aes Sedai, which is very unlikely) then 5 of them would STILL have equalled 7.5 Daigians. Meaning that roughly 8 Daigians would be a minimum level for Nynaeve's strength.
8 Daigians. Think about that for a moment.
If Nynaeve is 8 times as strong as Daigian, then we KNOW that she is 4 times stronger than the average Aes Sedai.
We ALSO know that Moiraine is about 3 times as strong as Daigian. Meaning that if Nynaeve is 8 times Daigian's strength, then she would be just under 3 times Moiraine's strength.
And here's the cherry on top. This is Nynaeve's strength as at Lord of Chaos. Which is still not her full strength, as we are told she is still not at her full potential a few books later than that!
The picture is pretty clear.
This fits with the Bonfire / Candle comparison and every other quote placing Nynaeve on a totally different level to Egwene.
This is evidence that really cannot be talked away, no matter how much you want it to be wrong.
This message last edited by Shannow on 27/01/2011 at 09:07:42 PM
Could Norla be the other woman stronger than Nynaeve?
22/01/2011 06:54:36 PM
- 2067 Views
It's a nice idea, really
22/01/2011 07:04:03 PM
- 1120 Views
we don't know the strength difference between Cadsuane and Nynaeve
22/01/2011 08:55:48 PM
- 1053 Views
Nynaeve is of course roughly twice as strong as Cadsuane...
24/01/2011 10:26:49 PM
- 1149 Views
you and your assumptions crack me up ... there is zero evidence that Nyn is 2x Cadsuane
26/01/2011 04:41:33 PM
- 981 Views
Waits for the candle flame vs. bonfire quote to appear...
26/01/2011 05:01:28 PM
- 1010 Views
*blows out the friggin candle* ... why does anyone take EoTW Moiraine quotes seriously?
26/01/2011 09:41:53 PM
- 981 Views
tGH, but I agree...
27/01/2011 04:58:08 AM
- 1061 Views
Re: tGH, but I agree...
27/01/2011 07:29:15 AM
- 909 Views
I think it's a matter of perspective too
27/01/2011 05:12:29 PM
- 863 Views
Nynaeve temporarily holds Logain shielded on her own, while 5 average strength Aes Sedai cannot...
27/01/2011 05:35:26 PM
- 770 Views
Another inconsistency ... since 4 women held a shield on Rand who is Stronger than Logain EDIT
27/01/2011 07:47:31 PM
- 867 Views
Not an inconsistency and if you analyse it...
27/01/2011 08:21:39 PM
- 1091 Views
I'm not dismissing the quote I'm saying 6 weak women held Logain
27/01/2011 09:21:34 PM
- 905 Views
Circular logic...
27/01/2011 09:49:40 PM
- 970 Views
Explain to me how Moghedien is only 60% of Lanfear and managed to do anything?
28/01/2011 06:25:28 PM
- 1009 Views
Easy. And I dispute that all 6 women shielding Logain were only 10% stronger than an Accepted.
29/01/2011 12:42:54 PM
- 743 Views
Not even gonna bother ... So many flawed statements in here it's not worth the effort to correct you *NM*
29/01/2011 04:50:01 PM
- 442 Views
Wait... what?
27/01/2011 11:16:32 PM
- 831 Views
Re: Wait... what?
28/01/2011 12:26:22 AM
- 780 Views
Nope...
28/01/2011 01:24:18 AM
- 870 Views
Yeah, but...
28/01/2011 12:53:26 PM
- 921 Views
Therer is a direct quote in New Spring
28/01/2011 02:20:40 PM
- 896 Views
That's your evidence? You mean like Caddy defers to Nynaeve?
28/01/2011 02:29:46 PM
- 833 Views
It will be someone who was alive at some point during the series...
22/01/2011 07:11:57 PM
- 1062 Views
Strength in the Power and skill in the Power are not the same thing.
22/01/2011 10:33:12 PM
- 893 Views
true, but nearly 300 years ago when she was a new AS she had yet to learn that lesson
23/01/2011 04:49:33 PM
- 874 Views
Possibly? But unlikely.
23/01/2011 11:12:01 PM
- 838 Views
The 6 are...
24/01/2011 10:09:33 PM
- 1155 Views
I disagree. If anything Semirhage is at the same strength level
24/01/2011 11:10:30 PM
- 925 Views
Agree and disagree...
25/01/2011 10:44:26 AM
- 883 Views
Re: Agree and disagree...
25/01/2011 11:04:11 PM
- 818 Views
I didn't say Semirhage is definitely one of the 6, but his answer leaves it as a viable possibility.
26/01/2011 07:36:52 AM
- 935 Views
I'd disagree with that statement. I think he definitively ruled her out with his comment
26/01/2011 04:40:14 PM
- 734 Views
Lanfear and Cyndane are the same person *NM*
25/01/2011 10:24:15 AM
- 410 Views
I think Shannows' point is that even with reduced strength, Lanfear is still the most powerful
25/01/2011 05:30:34 PM
- 884 Views
Re: The 6 are...
25/01/2011 10:51:40 PM
- 944 Views
This seems like the most likely case to me, but Sommeryn is unsubstantiated to date
26/01/2011 04:43:27 PM
- 764 Views
I think there's a stronger case for Someryn than most women
26/01/2011 05:07:03 PM
- 916 Views
I agree that she is the most likely candidate, but there is nothing beyond speculation
26/01/2011 09:45:27 PM
- 783 Views
Talaan isn't stronger. She is the same strength and has been actively channeling for 6 years
24/01/2011 11:14:31 PM
- 885 Views
Not necessarily
25/01/2011 08:07:02 PM
- 745 Views
But that doesn't answer why a toothless wilder in a backwoods hut would have drawn
26/01/2011 04:49:33 PM
- 839 Views
nah
25/01/2011 10:55:10 PM
- 1072 Views
it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments
26/01/2011 04:47:32 PM
- 973 Views
Re: it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments
26/01/2011 05:17:16 PM
- 853 Views
I can see that as a possibility too
26/01/2011 10:22:02 PM
- 856 Views