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I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM
Mesaana about the a'dam etc. just didn't work for me, and felt almost comedic, where the villain or hero start talking to his foe and gets foiled. It would have worked much better had Egwene simply realized this in her head and struck without warning. The whole episode left me a bit cold. I didn't really liked how in Brandon's hands Egwene seemed to regress in her TAR skills, though I start to get the feeling that in Jordan's mind she and the WO were not meant to be TAR super-fighters, that the lethal TAR killers he had in mind are to be Perrin and the wolves (and that dead wolves are in TAR as guardians/hunters). Egwene and the WO's real skills are in other areas. I also get more and more the feeling that some revelation is coming about the real speculated purpose of TAR in the cosmologt. I think it's more and more obvious a dreamwalker or Dreamer is meant to be onobstrusive, and that there are several things which are "unethical" to do in TAR, in the sense that it interferes with the Wheel or the real purpose of TAR. Entering in the flesh as if it were the real world seems to be one of those, and tampering with people's dreams in harmful ways, creating mass nightmares, killing people or animals in TAR etc. are all "evil". The wolves seem to think this way: they could hunt, but they should not kill in TAR. Egwene's skills (and the WO) seems to come from passivity/receptivity/contemplation/introspection, and more and more I wonder if holding to a non-obstrusive/ethical attitude in their interaction with TAR doesn't play a big role in a Dreamer's skills, a kind of sine qua non condition to increasing your oracular skills.


The impression I always got was that the wolves used the wolfdream to hunt, but weren't especially lethal in it. They seemed to be intuitively one with the Dream, but not necessarily more powerful - they were still animalistic in their use of it, and thus, limited in a place that reflected conscious thought and will.

It seemed to me that the Wise Ones and Dreamwalkers were of such a greater order of magnitude more powerful than the wolves due to their human consciousness that there really isn't a comparison. A single, relatively single-minded Dreamer (Slayer) was easily a match for multiple wolves and that destroyed any concept that they were a match for a human in this arena. While certain activities in T'A'R could be considered unethical for the Wise Ones, that doesn't negate their tactical capability to use these powers.

I got the exact opposite view from the series overall: the wolves were meant to counter the darkhounds in the Wolfdream since the darkhounds are so much more powerful in the real world, while any large-scale, human battles in Tel'Aran'Rhiod were meant to be fought by the Wise Ones. In some ways, the Wise Ones surrounded T'A'R with prohibitions that Egwene has to work around in order to re-discover Skimming, increase her mastery of it and bring her skill level closer to the Forsaken and beyond the Wise Ones. As we've seen, though the Wise Ones had superior experience and tactics, Egwene ended up destroying an enemy they might not have been able to defeat using their methods. In this regard, as in their prohibitions against fighting enemies using the One Power, they resemble Aes Sedai, and this seems more like an ultra-conservative philosophy of what should be done in Tel'Aran'Rhiod versus what a Dreamwalker was capable of.

While some of Egwenes' skills as a Dreamer are introspective, such as True Dreams and prophetic glimpses, it would be a forcible over-generalization to say that all of them are passive. Just because the nature of the place is immaterial and spiritual doesn't mean that the place is meant to be entirely passive.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 04/01/2011 at 05:19:43 PM
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How did Cyndane defeat Alivia? - 31/12/2010 08:03:39 PM 3576 Views
As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP - 31/12/2010 08:33:47 PM 1650 Views
Re: As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP - 31/12/2010 11:54:57 PM 1397 Views
RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes *NM* - 01/01/2011 05:59:37 AM 878 Views
Re: RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes - 01/01/2011 06:43:09 AM 1249 Views
Dude, he calls it out specifically. Cyndane beat Alivia because of her skill - 01/01/2011 03:22:48 PM 1253 Views
Search for "Alivia" - 01/01/2011 05:58:53 PM 1184 Views
nothing on either url *NM* - 01/01/2011 11:02:05 PM 546 Views
Try spelling it correctly then - 02/01/2011 01:30:23 AM 1134 Views
I did, maybe you made the mistake - 02/01/2011 07:13:54 PM 957 Views
Re: I did, maybe you made the mistake - 02/01/2011 07:51:22 PM 1053 Views
Here are few other quotes establishing how little Alivia knows of the OP - 02/01/2011 07:39:36 PM 1205 Views
Damane don't know about reversed weaves - 31/12/2010 09:56:51 PM 1301 Views
Re: Damane don't know about reversed weaves - 31/12/2010 11:48:15 PM 1139 Views
Re: Damane don't know about reversed weaves - 01/01/2011 01:18:50 AM 1093 Views
How did *Alivia* survive? - 01/01/2011 12:45:29 AM 1428 Views
Re: How did *Alivia* survive? - 01/01/2011 01:26:09 AM 1235 Views
Yes, odd. - 01/01/2011 01:45:01 AM 1166 Views
Nicola wasn't the dragon reborn with the pattern bending around her - 02/01/2011 12:24:50 PM 1056 Views
Not really ... Rand has had LTT knowledge leaking into his head for a long time - 02/01/2011 07:13:41 PM 1054 Views
reversed weaves are only useful when dealing with someone who doesn't know they exist. - 03/01/2011 07:51:01 PM 972 Views
Depends on the circumstances really - 04/01/2011 02:17:29 PM 1118 Views
but why would she have any idea that Nynaeve would be able to resist her. - 10/01/2011 07:30:49 PM 1058 Views
Well she did get attacked right off the bat... Pretty indicative that Nyn resist her compulsion - 11/01/2011 12:56:51 AM 1032 Views
Exactly. which is why she didn't have time to do any "fancy" and time consuming reversing. - 11/01/2011 03:23:50 PM 1189 Views
that's where she made her mistake - 11/01/2011 04:47:56 PM 1004 Views
It would be these memories, his t'a'veren nature & sheer luck/plot necessity that gave him the edge - 03/01/2011 10:32:43 PM 1100 Views
Well that was always going to happen - 03/01/2011 11:41:22 PM 1031 Views
agreed - 04/01/2011 02:18:23 PM 1104 Views
Re: How did Cyndane defeat Alivia? - 01/01/2011 12:56:54 AM 1221 Views
Re: How did Cyndane defeat Alivia? - 01/01/2011 01:13:39 AM 1167 Views
She's just that good - 01/01/2011 01:48:26 AM 1111 Views
magic *NM* - 01/01/2011 08:17:16 PM 505 Views
Cyndane injured Alivia, yes, but Alivia fought Cyndane off. - 02/01/2011 12:36:12 AM 1165 Views
Re: Cyndane injured Alivia, yes, but Alivia fought Cyndane off. - 02/01/2011 09:56:34 AM 1123 Views
Yup. - 02/01/2011 03:12:39 PM 1067 Views
Alivia has little experience fighting channellers, unlike Lanfear (most likely)... - 03/01/2011 12:56:43 AM 1419 Views
I agree with you - 03/01/2011 01:08:35 AM 1074 Views
Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector... - 03/01/2011 07:01:08 AM 1183 Views
Where do you get this idea? *NM* - 03/01/2011 07:19:50 PM 611 Views
Well, he's definitely right he was commenting on one of the specific ter'angreal in her "net". - 03/01/2011 10:51:09 PM 1118 Views
I'm thinking there are 2 items that break webs in different ways - 04/01/2011 07:51:46 PM 1080 Views
Very interesting point. I never noticed that before... - 05/01/2011 08:02:52 AM 1025 Views
Cadsuane has two types of weavebreakers... - 05/01/2011 12:51:38 PM 949 Views
inconclusive ... the ornament may be the same one she used to disrupt Semirhage - 05/01/2011 04:09:39 PM 1025 Views
I'm confused... - 05/01/2011 06:15:06 PM 1004 Views
Why should Cadsuane's "distance" unraveler not also go cold at nearby channeling? - 05/01/2011 06:51:49 PM 1013 Views
I'd buy this. - 05/01/2011 07:12:50 PM 985 Views
Except Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that can unravel weaves... - 05/01/2011 07:18:58 PM 908 Views
Not necessarily. - 05/01/2011 09:26:49 PM 1013 Views
I doubt it since LTT claims they created the "first" ones in the AOL - 08/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 967 Views
The first paralis nets, not necessarily the first weave breakers. - 09/01/2011 09:53:56 PM 1020 Views
Maybe, but that's getting really convoluted - 10/01/2011 03:36:17 AM 889 Views
Agreed - 10/01/2011 05:14:45 PM 988 Views
It would fit the various scenarios if she had 2 kinds ... - 05/01/2011 03:53:48 PM 970 Views
Because Demandred said so... - 04/01/2011 07:28:56 AM 1052 Views
Re: Because Demandred said so... - 04/01/2011 08:45:38 AM 1079 Views
Well there you have it, then... - 04/01/2011 09:24:38 AM 939 Views
Contortions - 04/01/2011 09:56:11 AM 7901 Views
If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ. - 04/01/2011 10:07:30 AM 938 Views
Re: If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ. - 04/01/2011 10:35:45 AM 1120 Views
I don't think Rand is referring to the system as an indivisible whole. - 04/01/2011 10:45:24 AM 1055 Views
Besides, he knew of the Well from their previous visit to Far Madding... - 04/01/2011 11:18:39 AM 1050 Views
It's also possible that a Paralis Net is simply a name for any personal system - 04/01/2011 09:23:18 PM 1173 Views
I agree. - 10/01/2011 07:08:19 PM 1027 Views
Re: Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector... - 03/01/2011 10:01:00 PM 1079 Views
I cannot remember Semirhage's reference to a paralis net, but if she did do so, it is problematic... - 04/01/2011 07:31:24 AM 1004 Views
It's a throw-away line - 04/01/2011 08:48:25 AM 1108 Views
I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream - 04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM 1086 Views
Agreed. Knowledge is power when it comes to channeling. - 03/01/2011 10:26:37 PM 1023 Views
Re: Agreed. Knowledge is power when it comes to channeling. - 03/01/2011 11:07:20 PM 1115 Views

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