I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM
Mesaana about the a'dam etc. just didn't work for me, and felt almost comedic, where the villain or hero start talking to his foe and gets foiled. It would have worked much better had Egwene simply realized this in her head and struck without warning. The whole episode left me a bit cold. I didn't really liked how in Brandon's hands Egwene seemed to regress in her TAR skills, though I start to get the feeling that in Jordan's mind she and the WO were not meant to be TAR super-fighters, that the lethal TAR killers he had in mind are to be Perrin and the wolves (and that dead wolves are in TAR as guardians/hunters). Egwene and the WO's real skills are in other areas. I also get more and more the feeling that some revelation is coming about the real speculated purpose of TAR in the cosmologt. I think it's more and more obvious a dreamwalker or Dreamer is meant to be onobstrusive, and that there are several things which are "unethical" to do in TAR, in the sense that it interferes with the Wheel or the real purpose of TAR. Entering in the flesh as if it were the real world seems to be one of those, and tampering with people's dreams in harmful ways, creating mass nightmares, killing people or animals in TAR etc. are all "evil". The wolves seem to think this way: they could hunt, but they should not kill in TAR. Egwene's skills (and the WO) seems to come from passivity/receptivity/contemplation/introspection, and more and more I wonder if holding to a non-obstrusive/ethical attitude in their interaction with TAR doesn't play a big role in a Dreamer's skills, a kind of sine qua non condition to increasing your oracular skills.
The impression I always got was that the wolves used the wolfdream to hunt, but weren't especially lethal in it. They seemed to be intuitively one with the Dream, but not necessarily more powerful - they were still animalistic in their use of it, and thus, limited in a place that reflected conscious thought and will.
It seemed to me that the Wise Ones and Dreamwalkers were of such a greater order of magnitude more powerful than the wolves due to their human consciousness that there really isn't a comparison. A single, relatively single-minded Dreamer (Slayer) was easily a match for multiple wolves and that destroyed any concept that they were a match for a human in this arena. While certain activities in T'A'R could be considered unethical for the Wise Ones, that doesn't negate their tactical capability to use these powers.
I got the exact opposite view from the series overall: the wolves were meant to counter the darkhounds in the Wolfdream since the darkhounds are so much more powerful in the real world, while any large-scale, human battles in Tel'Aran'Rhiod were meant to be fought by the Wise Ones. In some ways, the Wise Ones surrounded T'A'R with prohibitions that Egwene has to work around in order to re-discover Skimming, increase her mastery of it and bring her skill level closer to the Forsaken and beyond the Wise Ones. As we've seen, though the Wise Ones had superior experience and tactics, Egwene ended up destroying an enemy they might not have been able to defeat using their methods. In this regard, as in their prohibitions against fighting enemies using the One Power, they resemble Aes Sedai, and this seems more like an ultra-conservative philosophy of what should be done in Tel'Aran'Rhiod versus what a Dreamwalker was capable of.
While some of Egwenes' skills as a Dreamer are introspective, such as True Dreams and prophetic glimpses, it would be a forcible over-generalization to say that all of them are passive. Just because the nature of the place is immaterial and spiritual doesn't mean that the place is meant to be entirely passive.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 04/01/2011 at 05:19:43 PM
How did Cyndane defeat Alivia?
31/12/2010 08:03:39 PM
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As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
31/12/2010 08:33:47 PM
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Re: As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
31/12/2010 11:54:57 PM
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RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes *NM*
01/01/2011 05:59:37 AM
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Re: RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes
01/01/2011 06:43:09 AM
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Dude, he calls it out specifically. Cyndane beat Alivia because of her skill
01/01/2011 03:22:48 PM
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Search for "Alivia"
01/01/2011 05:58:53 PM
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nothing on either url *NM*
01/01/2011 11:02:05 PM
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Try spelling it correctly then
02/01/2011 01:30:23 AM
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Here are few other quotes establishing how little Alivia knows of the OP
02/01/2011 07:39:36 PM
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Damane don't know about reversed weaves
31/12/2010 09:56:51 PM
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How did *Alivia* survive?
01/01/2011 12:45:29 AM
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Re: How did *Alivia* survive?
01/01/2011 01:26:09 AM
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Yes, odd.
01/01/2011 01:45:01 AM
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Nicola wasn't the dragon reborn with the pattern bending around her
02/01/2011 12:24:50 PM
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Not really ... Rand has had LTT knowledge leaking into his head for a long time
02/01/2011 07:13:41 PM
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reversed weaves are only useful when dealing with someone who doesn't know they exist.
03/01/2011 07:51:01 PM
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Depends on the circumstances really
04/01/2011 02:17:29 PM
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but why would she have any idea that Nynaeve would be able to resist her.
10/01/2011 07:30:49 PM
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Well she did get attacked right off the bat... Pretty indicative that Nyn resist her compulsion
11/01/2011 12:56:51 AM
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Exactly. which is why she didn't have time to do any "fancy" and time consuming reversing.
11/01/2011 03:23:50 PM
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It would be these memories, his t'a'veren nature & sheer luck/plot necessity that gave him the edge
03/01/2011 10:32:43 PM
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Well that was always going to happen
03/01/2011 11:41:22 PM
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Yes. As I said, it would have been a very different series. Thanks for going into detail !
04/01/2011 04:47:51 PM
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Small correction - It has not been established that Alivia is stronger than Cyndane unaided...
02/01/2011 06:02:53 PM
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Alivia has little experience fighting channellers, unlike Lanfear (most likely)...
03/01/2011 12:56:43 AM
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Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
03/01/2011 07:01:08 AM
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Where do you get this idea? *NM*
03/01/2011 07:19:50 PM
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Well, he's definitely right he was commenting on one of the specific ter'angreal in her "net".
03/01/2011 10:51:09 PM
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I'm thinking there are 2 items that break webs in different ways
04/01/2011 07:51:46 PM
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Very interesting point. I never noticed that before...
05/01/2011 08:02:52 AM
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Cadsuane has two types of weavebreakers...
05/01/2011 12:51:38 PM
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inconclusive ... the ornament may be the same one she used to disrupt Semirhage
05/01/2011 04:09:39 PM
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I'm confused...
05/01/2011 06:15:06 PM
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Why should Cadsuane's "distance" unraveler not also go cold at nearby channeling?
05/01/2011 06:51:49 PM
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I'd buy this.
05/01/2011 07:12:50 PM
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Except Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that can unravel weaves...
05/01/2011 07:18:58 PM
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Not necessarily.
05/01/2011 09:26:49 PM
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I doubt it since LTT claims they created the "first" ones in the AOL
08/01/2011 05:23:53 PM
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The first paralis nets, not necessarily the first weave breakers.
09/01/2011 09:53:56 PM
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Maybe, but that's getting really convoluted
10/01/2011 03:36:17 AM
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Agreed
10/01/2011 05:14:45 PM
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I don't remember if the AS Symbol was used prior to the AOL ... if so then it's possible *NM*
10/01/2011 05:55:38 PM
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Because Demandred said so...
04/01/2011 07:28:56 AM
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Re: Because Demandred said so...
04/01/2011 08:45:38 AM
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Well there you have it, then...
04/01/2011 09:24:38 AM
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Contortions
04/01/2011 09:56:11 AM
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If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
04/01/2011 10:07:30 AM
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Re: If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
04/01/2011 10:35:45 AM
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I don't think Rand is referring to the system as an indivisible whole.
04/01/2011 10:45:24 AM
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Besides, he knew of the Well from their previous visit to Far Madding...
04/01/2011 11:18:39 AM
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It's also possible that a Paralis Net is simply a name for any personal system
04/01/2011 09:23:18 PM
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Re: Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
03/01/2011 10:01:00 PM
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I cannot remember Semirhage's reference to a paralis net, but if she did do so, it is problematic...
04/01/2011 07:31:24 AM
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I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream
04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM
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