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Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted Send a noteboard - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM
It strikes me as odd that behaviour of Rand's kids matches his Dark Rand persona, in terms of do-as-I-say-rest-be-doomed approach. Also, it strikes me as odd that when kids were mentioned, no Aviendha and no Elayne around. And not Egwene and no Nynaeve. I would think Aunt Nynaeve could've spanked them for their stupidity, and Egwene would have a big influence on the Wise Ones. But nothing of that has happened.

For me, it means the Dark Rand did not survive the Last Battle and it was very costly in terms of channelers head count. All our Supergirls did not survive and leftovers picked up their places.

Granted, the Light Rand does not guarantee that it would be much better, but we may have hope that it would.


I'm not so sure that Avienda's vision was affected by the timing of the vision vis a vis Rand's Dark vs. Light perspective.

Firstly, I dont think Dark Rand would induce the peace treaty.
Secondly, fundamentally, I dont think Dark Rand could win the last battle. There is no future unless Rand defeats the DO.

Thus the fact that we are shown a future with the peace treaty and victory at the last battle demonstrates that the vision was not affected by Rand's alignment at the time of the viewing. In fact, the vision can be seen as predicting Rand's shift to the Light early in this future timeline.

So i think this is the future we are going to get under the best circumstances for the good guys. The only way out of it that i can think of is if the Aiel are included in the treaty.
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Avienda's viewing and the Fields of Merrilor (spoilers) saidarisnowtainted - 28/12/2010 06:21:05 PM 3296 Views
Timing moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1916 Views
Indeed...the bleak future makes the Last Battle almost an anti-climax... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:20:31 PM 2013 Views
And yet, the only places of relative peace and shelter right now are Seanchan controlled lands. everynametaken - 29/12/2010 03:21:37 AM 1561 Views
+1. Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 04:04:02 AM 1357 Views
Re: +1. Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:25:23 PM 1240 Views
Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:27:35 AM 1362 Views
Says the person defending monarchies and oligarchies, some of them quite brutal. moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:12:56 PM 1327 Views
LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:00:11 PM 1485 Views
Re: LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 10:44:12 PM 1327 Views
Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Shannow - 30/12/2010 10:00:43 AM 1275 Views
Re: Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:28:03 PM 1231 Views
"romantic characteristics" Variant - 07/01/2011 06:06:31 AM 1205 Views
Re: "romantic characteristics" Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:30:33 PM 1227 Views
Don't blame the Seanchan, The Aiel made an excuse to start a war. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:20:36 AM 1639 Views
Re: Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Zeratul - 29/12/2010 03:06:16 PM 1451 Views
Exactly. *NM* everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:50:07 AM 853 Views
They are pretty close to evil. Slavery being the big thing, but the crushing social scale is far darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:45:59 PM 1180 Views
The Aiel sold slaves to Shara, does that make them evil? No society in Randland is without flaws. Variant - 07/01/2011 05:10:32 AM 1437 Views
you are missing my point darius_sedai - 07/01/2011 11:31:11 PM 1308 Views
We haven't had a POV from a NON-high-ranking Seanchan moratcorlm - 08/01/2011 03:13:26 AM 24811 Views
As to Bethamin ... darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:46:36 PM 1297 Views
No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM 1211 Views
Re: No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Lo'oris - 08/01/2011 10:04:18 AM 1263 Views
Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lohikaarme - 08/01/2011 11:00:31 AM 1221 Views
Re: Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lo'oris - 09/01/2011 02:08:17 AM 1216 Views
That's funny, I'd choose modern day China in a second. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:37:24 AM 1203 Views
Hong Kong is not an accurate representation of the rest of Modern China darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:50:20 PM 1191 Views
~sigh~ Cosmopolitan China is different than Rural China Variant - 21/01/2011 01:00:17 AM 1190 Views
well there is also the fact that Hong Kong has different "rules" than even other major darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:38:46 PM 1248 Views
I'm not just talking about Hong Kong though... Variant - 22/01/2011 09:36:20 AM 1263 Views
I've traveled extensively darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:02:47 PM 1204 Views
You've traveled to China extensively? Variant - 22/01/2011 07:41:30 PM 1270 Views
the quesetion you responded too is "would you rather live in Medieval Europe of Modern China darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:47:24 PM 1459 Views
I responded, "I"d choose modern day china in a second" Variant - 22/01/2011 10:29:46 PM 1283 Views
Actually, China is changing. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:32:58 AM 1240 Views
true to a point, yet China has been under one form or another of totalitarian rule for darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:57:37 PM 1216 Views
So? Variant - 21/01/2011 01:20:18 AM 1326 Views
Double post *NM* Variant - 21/01/2011 01:21:10 AM 676 Views
It's the comparative to the Seanchan empire I'm really getting at here, not saying China isn't darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:43:56 PM 1301 Views
I don't even know why China was brought up in the first place ~shrugs~ Variant - 22/01/2011 10:04:59 AM 1150 Views
I totally agree with your last point, which is why I think RJ set them up to be the "Evil Empire" darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:12:46 PM 1233 Views
They're not entirely evil though, and RJ has written them that way Variant - 22/01/2011 08:02:22 PM 1205 Views
not so much darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:54:38 PM 1182 Views
Your example is absurd. Variant - 22/01/2011 10:53:06 PM 1123 Views
Ah yes, the "Jews can kill you with their minds" argument. *NM* moratcorlm - 23/01/2011 05:32:23 PM 675 Views
Please. Like anyone else in Randland is really free? everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:47:27 AM 1209 Views
Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:35:29 PM 1166 Views
Andor is lionized as a huge exception to the general rule moratcorlm - 31/12/2010 11:57:30 PM 1274 Views
Re: Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds Zeratul - 01/01/2011 12:18:46 AM 1286 Views
Seanchan is much closer to the Chinese culture. Which has never established democracy darius_sedai - 01/01/2011 06:12:10 AM 1623 Views
Prussia (and with it Germany) would never have changed to democracy if not forced to Voscaia Sedai - 01/01/2011 12:23:34 PM 1128 Views
too easy: they did not have to fight the Shadow, they don't even know shadowspawn really exist as of *NM* Lo'oris - 29/12/2010 02:44:18 PM 717 Views
It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:00:57 PM 1161 Views
Re: It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population moratcorlm - 01/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 1288 Views
Word, even the Tinkers are gathering and migrating to Seanchan held lands in the south. *NM* Variant - 07/01/2011 05:21:09 AM 640 Views
Maybe they're a remnant of humanity Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:41:40 AM 1369 Views
Re: Maybe they're a remnant of humanity moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:17:33 PM 1325 Views
Couple of flaws here darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:54:13 PM 1198 Views
You are right, here is a better analogy dadof5 - 03/01/2011 06:23:16 PM 1199 Views
Even Hitler didn't think Jews could kill people with their minds moratcorlm - 03/01/2011 07:22:09 PM 1252 Views
It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:27:59 PM 1295 Views
No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:31:27 PM 1379 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:50:28 PM 1259 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM 1300 Views
Because the Aiel are savages who have no place in a modern world moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 11:15:23 PM 1360 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:01:00 PM 1310 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Ashaman_Luc - 28/12/2010 11:02:34 PM 1240 Views
VoG = Veins of Gold. The chapter at the end of TGS where Rand becomes balanced. *NM* Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 06:56:38 AM 2106 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:37:04 AM 1250 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 29/12/2010 02:37:12 PM 1254 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:02:31 PM 1491 Views
timeline in the books Ava - 29/12/2010 03:34:45 PM 1324 Views
Re: timeline in the books moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 05:29:11 PM 1332 Views
Re: timeline in the books Ava - 31/12/2010 01:18:32 PM 1221 Views
yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. these kids were probably slowing since birth. Onarishma - 03/01/2011 08:19:22 PM 1297 Views
Re: yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. Ava - 04/01/2011 12:21:59 PM 1134 Views
your premise is that first generation applies to anyone but them. Onarishma - 10/01/2011 09:25:02 PM 1168 Views
Aviendha + Mat (and Seta and Bethamin) are the best hopes. The Angry Druid - 09/01/2011 01:45:00 AM 1271 Views
From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM 1701 Views
Problem is, the fate of post-TG Randland depends on the viewing being heeded before TG. *NM* Lord Haart - 20/01/2011 10:07:15 AM 620 Views
The Light's victory in the Last Battle was already a foregone conclusion ranagrande - 21/01/2011 03:48:54 PM 1144 Views
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