Well, since the chapter you name establishes the meeting at Merrilor I could just cite that, but it's mainly the fact that neither of them shows any sign of backing down, which will create an impasse, leading to another reason: Egwenes decision to summon every army between the Spine and the Ayrth to be the “friendly persuader” in their little “discussion”. The Dragon Reborn will agree with the Amyrlin Seat or she’ll have him attacked by every army she can find the day before Tarmon Gaidon. Because siccing every available army on ta’veren worked SO well for Bonwhin, right…? Here’s the kind of “discussion” Egwene intends to have with the “friend” who so “infuriates” her:

That’s what she decides to tell Lord Darlin AFTER realizing that since the Seanchan probably have Traveling now even Gateways might not be able to get his armies back in time if his stated fear of an attack materializes. She grits her teeth over her memories of being collared, knowledge of Aes Sedai already Seanchan slaves and Darlins valid concern the Seanchan could take Tear—then tells him to leave the nation undefended anyway, all to ensure she can attack Rand to get her way. That’s despite the fact Darlin has already told her he’s given Rand his loyalty and never does that lightly, only stating that Rands intentions cause him “concern” and should be “discussed”. Egwene wants Rand to “discuss” it with Darlin and his army—which happen to be a helluva lot more loyal to Rand than any Tairen will ever be to the White Tower. But she’s made her decision and the world will accede if she has to shake it by the scruff of her neck, as proven by the fact that

Yes, dear, because you finally “obliquely realized” what Rand was having you do while still mistaking who’ll actually lead the armies whose muster he’s delegated to the Amyrlin Seat. Despite having the entire Karaethon Cycle to remind you. I mean, really, the monarchs will be tied to the WHITE TOWER for the Last Battle? Wait, remind me again which one is Egwene and which is Elaida….

He’s slightly short on time, what with the whole “save the world” thing on his calendar for next week. He came anyway to 1) give her the courtesy of sharing his plans 2) prompt her to assemble all the Westlands armies for him, which she’s doing without even knowing that's his goal and, above all, 3) seek the aid necessary since both men AND women must be involved in resealing the Bore for any hope of success because

I’ll give Egwene credit here; the very next paragraph contains her admission to herself that she’s wrong to think the Aes Sedai “must see me confront him”. Too bad it seems to be a momentary thought and she spends the entire rest of the book plotting to coerce him into obeying her. Given that she’s unwittingly doing exactly what he intended, how do you think the meeting he engineered will go if she insists on her own way…? I admit I’ve suspected for a while that Egwenes reign will be brief and followed by Logain as Amyrlin of female AND male Aes Sedai, I just wasn’t sure why. I’m starting to form suspicions of why though, and this is one part of that.

Yah, Lews Therins comments are one of the many MANY examples of how breaking the seals has been foreshadowed since at least TFoH. In other words Jordan has been setting that up narratively for longer than Moiraine was captive; think that might mean something? As for Fels death being “convenient”, he was killed by a gholam, a creature of which there’s never been more than a dozen and there’s now only one known to exist. The DO could’ve shadowtraveled a Myrddraal in, or sent a virtually invisible Gray Man, or used a random anonymous Darkfriend, or had one of the Forsaken Travel, or send Slayer to kill him in his sleep or the waking world. Instead the Shadow sent a unique and distinctive assassin that couldn’t be touched by the Power, for an obscure philosopher you seem to think is less than trivial to the plot. Despite the fact Rand STILL deliberately retains the last communication he received from the man. The combination of that and LTTs past comments are the reason Rand finally realizes what he has to do. No, if there’s any reaching here, it’s yours, not mine.

Incidentally, it was Faile rather than Egwene who balks when Perrin support Rands position, so my bad there:

It seems I misremembered which woman was making the unwarranted assumption, but adding Faile to Egwenes cause and Perrins to Rands is a net loss for the ladies. Notice that Perrin independently deduces precisely the logic behind Rands decision, in almost the same words, and without any convoluted and risky Shadow assassination just for the sake of planting a red herring. It also means Egwene will be opposed by not one but TWO ta’veren, and even if the meeting were in Tel’aran’rhiod (which it won’t be) Perrin’s already shown himself stronger there than Egwene or any other Amyrlin—with the possible exception of Lews Therin Telamon, of course.

In addition to Fel, Min, Rand, LTT and Perrin, Nynaeve also has a perfectly logical reason for agreeing with Rand, which she shares with Egwene only to have it brushed aside without ever being addressed:

Elayne makes the logical, obvious and correct observation that only three seals remain and they’re failing, then Nynaeve independently makes the same statement Rand does at one point: The seals are going to fail sooner or later anyway so it’s better that Rand rather than the DO choose the time and have the initiative. Egwene ignores all that and says Rand can “surely” defeat the DO without his being released, without bothering to even speculate on how; of course WE know that Rand has been considering how to do just that for most of the series and the impossibility of it is one more reason he’s concluded he must destroy the seals himself. Note, once again, that despite both women reminding her that the seals are going to fail whatever is or isn’t done she ignores that fact in her haste to call Rands proposed solution “foolhardy”. What’s your plan B, Egwene? Oh, right, you DON’T HAVE ONE! This is a woman who just a few pages earlier is standing with her arms crossed in Tel’aran’rhiod SULKING because Nynaeve hasn’t come promptly enough when called, reflecting that it wouldn’t be the first time Nynaeve has disappointed her and how INFURIATING it is that she’s made so many other powers bow to her but can’t count on her own friends. Like Rand, whom she’s planning to lead an army against for the hell of it, and Elayne and Nynaeve, who annoy her by opposing that “foolhardiness” for perfectly valid reasons (she actually refers to each of them on her “infuriating list” before manipulating her “friend” Nynaeve into submitting to the Amyrlins authority across the board).

That last statement is the most obvious of the many examples in that passage of something called “irony”. She ignores their quite logical reasons for supporting Rands position, then rationalizes her validation on the grounds, not that she's rebutted rather than dismissing valid points, but that Nynaeve has simply been around him too long. Otherwise she would agree with Egwene, of course, because she “generally did see the right way things needed to be done, so long as the right way didn’t involve her being wrong”. Sound like any Amyrlins we know…?

She’s setting herself up for a mighty big fall, and doing it so arrogantly that it’ll be fun to watch if she refuses to yield. In that same chapter she sees, just before Nynaeves arrival and latest humiliation by her “friend” the Amyrlin, the Tel’aran’rhiod version of the window she’s having installed in her study—but with the Dragons Fang as well as the Flame of Tar Valon. This leads her to speculate it might be an alternate reality where the Dragon Reborn rules alongside the mighty Amyrlin Seat as an EQUAL. Or, y’know, it might be the completed window of the future in which a single Amyrlin that needn’t be female, let alone be Egwene, leads a White Tower of men and women. She hasn’t considered that possibility either, of course; in all her visions of the Tower controlling the worlds channelers after Tarmon Gaidon it’s ALWAYS an exclusively female Tower. Note especially p. 566, where she says, “We must become a source that women look to, all women”. But no MEN in her all inclusive egalitarian future Tower; the only consideration she’s EVER given to male channelers is on that same page, where she points out that the Asha’man will never accept the Tower claiming male angreal and that the Tower will be unable to make them. Would that she were always so reasonable about male channelers….

See above; right exchange, but with Faile rather than Egwene. That’s alright though, Egwene does plenty of pouting elsewhere over this and less significant matters, but I’ll save those examples for when they’re more relevant. As to what fanboys imagine…:

In a word, no. What she ACTUALLY Dreamed was

At NO point in the entire 843 page novel does Egwene “feel” the meaning of the Dream about the crystal sphere as she does the one about Mesaana. She REMEMBERS it when Rand tells her he’s going to break the seals, but doesn’t claim even an inkling about its meaning then or later. If she were as certain as you of the Dreams meaning why not mention it to Rand himself when his revelation immediately brings it to mind? Your mistake is perhaps understandable since she ACTS as if she has such good reason for her obstinacy. She just doesn’t; she’s decided Rand is wrong and won’t be dissuaded from his foolishness so she needs to bring as many armies as possible to forcibly alter his course. Because… well, just because….

She should take what comfort she can in the fact Dreams aren’t Foretellings, because Iains suggestion that the 23 stars represent the 23 member Hall of the Tower rather than the seven original or three remaining seals makes FAR more sense than any other I’ve seen. It’s entirely possible she’s being warned not to make Rand break her precious White Tower with the rueful headshake from her Dream simply because she obstinately and irrationally opposes what Jordan’s well established is GOING to happen whether she likes it or not. If she insists, however, it could well explain Mins vision of Logains future glory (and of the need for Perrin to save Rands life-possibly from Egwene, which is pathetic). It could also explain how the White Tower naturally and inevitably expands to include Asha’man in a way Egwene seems to never once consider as she races to bring every channeler under Tower control (which is precisely what she’s doing whether she admits it to herself or not).

If anything the Pattern is telling her SHE’S wrong, but she doesn’t have the best track record on accepting such rebukes; she generally needs it rammed down her throat, and it may choke her this time. She doesn’t have the certain knowledge you apparently do about her Dream, quite the opposite, so there’s no reason to believe her Dream warns her about anything directly concerning the seven/three/not twenty-three seals, and real reason to believe otherwise. It’s more likely the Dream is warning her to BACK DOWN to avoid disaster. Yes, she has a contingency plan to get her way by force if Rand won’t see reason (i.e. obey her) and isn’t even considering an alternative; glad we agree on that much. That’s not leadership, it’s stubbornness, and with nothing on which to base her opposition to the man who CREATED the seals, it’s also dangerous folly.

Fine, but that means Rand’s defeated more Forsaken than I can recall right now and she’s overcome none in her own right, so her greatest “victory” was allowing the capture of a dozen or two friends and allies and the deaths of as many more while wielding the most powerful sa’angreal she’s ever seen against a Seanchan RAID. Rand’s destroyed multiple ARMIES singlehandedly using an even more powerful sa’angreal, but she’s evidently going to convince him to do as she says even if she has to attack him. Rand tells Caddy that LTT alone was 400+ when he died, but a 20 year old girl is going to take him to school—at gunpoint, no less. He’s got more experience, more information, more wisdom and more power, but she’s going to have her way if she has to kill him, I guess. Good luck….

I read it, re-read it, and re-read all her later references to it; I spent a couple days last week re-reading the whole book to see if maybe I’d simply missed the thing you’ve now claimed three times is so clearly and unmistakably stated. It’s not there, so I’m starting to wonder if YOU read of her Dream. You’re confused because I’m ignoring something that doesn’t exist; which is to say, you’re simply confused, without need of me to make you so. As to why she would let him leave if she had no good reason to oppose him, read further in the same chapter:

She let him leave because she didn’t want to make herself a hypocrite in front of the entire Hall, and because she has just enough sense left to remember Rand DOES actually have to fight the Last Battle himself, not be trotted out on an Aes Sedai chain for the Dark One to kill while the Tower wins the victory. That still doesn’t stop her from trying to tell him how to fight the Last Battle, but does make her chance of success very slim.


She better figure out wtf her Dream means before she mentions it, or she’ll look even more ridiculous than she already intends. Honestly, looking back on all the quotes just now my only embarrassment is that I didn’t see sooner that Jordan has set Egwene up to be CRUSHED by her own arrogance. She has no rational basis for her intractable position. She’s ignoring sound reasons at which many others arrived at, not “individually”, but “independently” (i.e. not observations by a few, but conclusions many have reached with no prompting). She’s trying to manipulate men whose loyalty Rand has EARNED to gain use of their armies even if it means their homes fall to the Seanchan, and the best part? She’s doing so because she intends a pitched battle with the Dragon Reborn on the eve of the Tarmon Gaidon if she can’t have her way.

This is like a case study in all the things stupid good guys have done to destroy themselves throughout the series, and if it happens to be a character we’re “supposed to like” maybe that just drives the lesson home more forcefully. She's has an out if she yields, but otherwise she's toast; I only wish we still had wSE points so I could offer you a hefty wager on it. So, thanks for prompting my re-read, I suppose; not only have I verified that nowhere in the book does Egwene claim any certainty about her Dream (the Dream whose uncertain meaning is, y'know, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD!) but I've found a slew of supporting evidence for my position as well as Rands.