Wheel of Time Messageboard: I think what was demonstrated in TOM was clearly 250 times in strength from KOD or more..... by djwilson300

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I think what was demonstrated in TOM was clearly 250 times in strength from KOD or more..... djwilson300 Send a noteboard - 21/12/2010 12:11:54 AM

I conceive it as being more likely that Rand's complete assimilation of LTT has multiplied his ability with the Power, instead of his strength. Rand now has four centuries of use and research from the pinnacle of the Age of Legends: surely there are many weaves that are more Power-efficient than what Rand was using before, as well as that long to increase his dexterity of weaves in general.

Regarding Egwene's statment that the entire Tower would not have been able to hold him, I took that to mean that the Pattern would not allow them to do so - rather than being unable to overpower him through sheer strength.

He destroyed an army of Shadowspawn so vast that Ituralde didn't think any force in the world would have been able to stop them. It took Rand and something like 100 other Channelers to destroy 100,000 Trollocs in KoD. Naeff was absolutely stunned by the sheer volume of Rands weaving as well. If it was only about him gaining LTTs full knowledge then any of the Forsaken could do much the same as what Rand did at Maradon, which we know isn't true from seeing various OP battles between them and Rand.

Rand did not have 100 channelers in KOD but if I recollect something more like 25-35. Still the point is well received that 1/10th the trollocs vs 25 times the channelers and it was "a close run" in KOD should give you an estimate that minimally Rand is 250 times as strong as the average Ashaman. You can also take into account the fact that Rand displayed amazing control of the weaves in TOM and none of the buildings were effected, or one might wonder if Rand wasn't controlling the weaves at all and the Creator helped take a hand at that moment and destroyed all the shadowspawn, but was incapable of damaging anything else due to his very nature! (more probable IMO that Rand being able to increase his strength by that much over night)

Rand is accessing the true abilities of the DR at this point IMO and has moved far beyond what any mere human is capable of ... the way I see it he's become an Avatar of the Creator.

Agreed, but I don't think that these abilities as the Avatar of the Creator can win the Last Battle. I think much like Sanderson's two Deities in the Mistborn novel, the Creator vs the Dark One is a stalemate at best. Rand/LTT need to add something unforeseen into the equation (IMO this is where Callandor comes in) to tip the scales and create a more lasting victory over the D.O. (sorry no time to lay evidence in now, but why else refer to the untouched buildings at the end of the scene?)

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Rand's new strength level - Approximately the power of two men, 10 men or 100 men? Shannow - 20/12/2010 06:58:18 PM 2488 Views

it's an interesting question. I think he's more like a person drawing on the TP darius_sedai - 20/12/2010 07:05:43 PM 997 Views

Good point. But I disagree that Rand or Moridin could draw limitless volumes of the True Power Shannow - 20/12/2010 07:20:25 PM 804 Views

I'm not so sure about that, we don't actually know that much about the TP darius_sedai - 20/12/2010 07:51:26 PM 768 Views

Don't we also know that it can be used by channelers only? Lohikaarme - 21/12/2010 06:31:08 PM 680 Views

Re: Don't we also know that it can be used by channelers only? darius_sedai - 18/01/2011 12:13:43 AM 660 Views

I've yet to be convinced that Rand's raw strength has increased. Macharius - 20/12/2010 07:14:43 PM 1088 Views

Then he would be no different to Demandred or another powerful Forsaken... Shannow - 20/12/2010 07:18:44 PM 859 Views

Re: Then he would be no different to Demandred or another powerful Forsaken... Onarishma - 20/12/2010 08:41:11 PM 762 Views

His power is clearly increased darius_sedai - 20/12/2010 07:59:02 PM 1098 Views

I think what was demonstrated in TOM was clearly 250 times in strength from KOD or more..... djwilson300 - 21/12/2010 12:11:54 AM 881 Views

he actually did have close to 100 with him darius_sedai - 18/01/2011 12:10:16 AM 632 Views

Re: His power is clearly increased Macharius - 21/12/2010 02:57:17 PM 778 Views

Re: His power is clearly increased Kieran - 21/12/2010 03:39:54 PM 728 Views

Hampered and fought the entire way by Rand, so, no, that won't be necessary. *NM* Macharius - 21/12/2010 05:00:06 PM 350 Views

What book did you read? Kieran - 21/12/2010 07:45:38 PM 646 Views

It was "Lews Therin," not Lews Therin. *NM* Ghavrel - 17/01/2011 11:02:02 PM 339 Views

Lews Therin has been dead for 3,000 years. *NM* moratcorlm - 21/12/2010 09:24:49 PM 318 Views

I agree *NM* Onarishma - 20/12/2010 08:14:09 PM 327 Views

I agree as well. moratcorlm - 21/12/2010 01:14:28 AM 699 Views

Hey Shannow, what does your theory say about Rand's One Power level? Fanatic-Templar - 20/12/2010 08:03:12 PM 703 Views

I don't think he strength has significantly increased.... but he has fully accepted his LTT memories Onarishma - 20/12/2010 08:09:12 PM 730 Views

I think it's Naeff in that scene that directly says he's never seen so many weaves at once darius_sedai - 20/12/2010 08:24:54 PM 663 Views

Re: I think it's Naeff in that scene that directly says he's never seen so many weaves at once Onarishma - 20/12/2010 08:44:08 PM 763 Views

Re: I think it's Naeff in that scene that directly says he's never seen so many weaves at once cristopher lee - 20/12/2010 10:23:15 PM 737 Views

Re: I think it's Naeff in that scene that directly says he's never seen so many weaves at once Macharius - 21/12/2010 02:59:43 PM 802 Views

well he's been around Rand for a while now ... probably since Logain took the Asha'man to Tear darius_sedai - 18/01/2011 12:16:01 AM 581 Views

I say the strength level - a little bit more than before, just a little. Skeeve the Great - 21/12/2010 12:50:08 AM 881 Views

His raw strength is the same Sidious - 21/12/2010 07:15:09 AM 838 Views

So, can Rand materialize out of light and float now like Ishy in TDR? *NM* cristopher lee - 21/12/2010 11:39:29 PM 338 Views

I've read it as two things have happened to him. callandor1000 - 22/12/2010 02:14:26 AM 749 Views

Re: I've read it as two things have happened to him. Kieran - 22/12/2010 05:21:30 AM 836 Views

All three have; don't forget Perrin forging Mah'alleinir. *NM* Ghavrel - 17/01/2011 11:06:12 PM 340 Views

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<quote id="180754">
<quote id="180685"><quote id="180662">I conceive it as being more likely that Rand's complete assimilation of LTT has multiplied his <i>ability</i> with the Power, instead of his strength. Rand now has four centuries of use and research from the pinnacle of the Age of Legends: surely there are many weaves that are more Power-efficient than what Rand was using before, as well as that long to increase his dexterity of weaves in general.

Regarding Egwene's statment that the entire Tower would not have been able to hold him, I took that to mean that the Pattern would not allow them to do so - rather than being unable to overpower him through sheer strength.</quote>

He destroyed an army of Shadowspawn so vast that Ituralde didn't think any force in the world would have been able to stop them.  It took Rand and something like 100 other Channelers to destroy 100,000 Trollocs in KoD.  Naeff was absolutely stunned by the sheer volume of Rands weaving as well.  If it was only about him gaining LTTs full knowledge then any of the Forsaken could do much the same as what Rand did at Maradon, which we know isn't true from seeing various OP battles between them and Rand.</quote>

Rand is accessing the true abilities of the DR at this point IMO and has moved far beyond what any mere human is capable of ... the way I see it he's become an Avatar of the Creator.

Agreed, but I don't think that these abilities as the Avatar of the Creator can win the Last Battle.  I think much like Sanderson's two Deities in the Mistborn novel, the Creator vs the Dark One is a stalemate at best.  Rand/LTT need to add something unforeseen into the equation (IMO this is where Callandor comes in) to tip the scales and create a more lasting victory over the D.O. (sorry no time to lay evidence in now, but why else refer to the untouched buildings at the end of the scene?)

</quote>

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