Active Users:442 Time:04/04/2025 10:28:05 PM
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? fairfax Send a noteboard - 20/12/2010 02:02:05 AM
Fair points, I take back the "positive reinforcement" thing I said.

As I've said before, my biggest issue with Egwene is that she falls into the Pratchettian definition of evil: she treats people as things. One of the only times in the last few books that I can recall her even trying to empathise with someone was when she obtusely compared her imprisonment to Rand's. She clearly knows some details of his capture, and yet she compares a prison cell with a coffin, spanking with beating, and her fears for the tower with Rand's fears for the fate of the entire world. And to top that off, Rand was forced to watch his lover being beaten even harder than he was. Egwene just seems out of touch with people. She understands how they think and work, and she can negotiate well enough, but she doesn't actually feel for them. Nicola dies because of her bad planning, and all we get is a sentence or two of mild regret followed by justification. Siuan saves her life, but Egwene is too paranoid to trust her. Nynaeve's experiences were so far beyond any pain we've seen caused to Egwene that it's mindboggling, yet this is done for pure political expediency. Compare Egwene's thought process to any other major character; the only one who somewhat matches is Dark Rand.


I have not read Pratchett so I won't comment his type of evil. I agree with you Egwene doesn't empathize well. That doesn't make her evil. I don't know if you can blame Egwene for Nynaeve's experiences during the testing. Saerin rounded on the other testers for the scenes they created during the testing. Romanda, Lelaine, Rubinde are all responsible for the worst parts of the testing, not Egwene. All of the Aes Sedai, except Egwene and Elayne, have gone through the testing and don't seem worse for the wear. I don't recall having read anywhere in the series that Egwene should expect Nyneave's test to be so brutal. From Egwene experience Nyneave's test should have been the norm that all Aes Sedai go through.

Yes it was politcally expedient for Nyneave to go through the tests. Both Egwene and Nyneave would benefit. I just don't see how Egwene should have expected the brutal test that Romanda, Lelaine and Rubinde created.


She's had a month now - why aren't the Yellow and Green Ajahs out on the blight border holding back the tide? Because Egwene is thinking like Dark Rand; it's all about winning the LB, not about winning a future for humanity. A person can have all the traits and abilities of legendary leadership, but if they place that leadership before their own humanity then they are nothing more than an administrative machine.


I agree with on parts of this. Where are the Aes Sedai helping the borderlanders? Why is Egwene still getting information from pigeons? Why aren't sisters all over Randland getting their information first hand? Egwene should know there is a thing called traveling. Where are the teams of Aes Sedai training for battle together? If you want the different Ajahs to start working together and building teamwork you should make them work together. Have 5 or 6 sisters from different Ajah's work together as a team. Fighting together, healing together, getting intelligence together. Ask the Great Captain Gareth Bryne to work with them on being more battle worthy.

I just don't think Egwene is thinking like Dark Rand. I think she has so much to do somethings slip through the cracks.
Reply to message
Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 05:59:15 PM 2224 Views
Egwene isn't supposed to be a leader. She's a dictator and a politician. - 16/12/2010 08:21:13 PM 1386 Views
Well! No love lost there - 17/12/2010 01:52:59 PM 877 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 09:35:44 PM 1163 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM 1070 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 03:07:40 AM 1164 Views
Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 04:52:34 AM 943 Views
Re: Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 05:44:30 AM 1050 Views
That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 07:44:32 AM 1051 Views
Re: That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 10:14:36 AM 1056 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 02:30:48 PM 1110 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 08:25:39 PM 883 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 18/12/2010 05:06:21 AM 1044 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM 953 Views
Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. *NM* - 20/12/2010 12:14:55 AM 563 Views
Re: Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. - 20/12/2010 01:24:12 AM 999 Views
And the most painful torments were caused by Egwene - 20/12/2010 09:31:44 AM 1116 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 06:47:33 PM 931 Views
That's not quite accurate. - 21/12/2010 01:22:26 AM 1168 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 12:57:42 AM 882 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 02:02:05 AM 1035 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 22/12/2010 07:08:37 AM 947 Views
She has the same power base as any Amyrlin - the Aes Sedai, the artisans, Guards & citizens of TV - 17/12/2010 05:51:20 PM 1035 Views
Ta'veren vs. Mary Sue - 17/12/2010 07:33:28 PM 1421 Views
I see them as being the same thing. - 17/12/2010 08:11:30 PM 1044 Views
I don't think the case can be made for Rand having it easy - 17/12/2010 11:04:58 PM 964 Views
Funniest statement I've ever seen on here. - 18/12/2010 05:22:28 AM 1058 Views
Agree with your comments. - 20/12/2010 03:12:32 PM 1254 Views
You need to post more about Egwene - 17/12/2010 08:16:19 PM 1011 Views
Nah. Just a hyopcrite. *NM* - 17/12/2010 09:28:28 PM 526 Views
Yes, but for completely different reasons... - 18/12/2010 12:35:23 AM 1080 Views
Yes, communication is key. - 18/12/2010 05:32:01 AM 945 Views
You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 12:27:01 PM 905 Views
Re: You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 02:41:25 PM 828 Views
Definitely... - 18/12/2010 03:24:12 PM 945 Views
Where does the 200000 number come from? *NM* - 18/12/2010 03:36:22 PM 479 Views
That's not right... - 19/12/2010 12:56:25 AM 910 Views
Re: That's not right... - 19/12/2010 11:38:54 PM 1035 Views
What's said above. Plus - 19/12/2010 11:00:42 AM 885 Views
More explanations... - 20/12/2010 02:51:25 AM 908 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 09:40:46 AM 963 Views
Aiel, Cairhien and Andor are NOT under Egwenes power. - 20/12/2010 02:46:44 PM 971 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 03:58:58 PM 1093 Views
An Amyrlin doesn't really have a power base. - 18/12/2010 05:43:12 AM 1017 Views
I think comparing Egwene to McCain is asking for trouble on several fronts. - 20/12/2010 12:33:04 AM 916 Views
She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 02:41:32 AM 932 Views
RJ is more powerful. - 20/12/2010 03:25:49 AM 1055 Views
I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 20/12/2010 03:58:03 AM 973 Views
Re: I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 21/12/2010 09:08:20 PM 977 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:46:22 AM 1010 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:55:03 AM 880 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 10:27:59 AM 972 Views
One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:15:03 AM 1005 Views
Re: One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:22:10 AM 871 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 11:08:35 AM 951 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 10:35:45 PM 964 Views

Reply to Message