Fair points, I take back the "positive reinforcement" thing I said.
As I've said before, my biggest issue with Egwene is that she falls into the Pratchettian definition of evil: she treats people as things. One of the only times in the last few books that I can recall her even trying to empathise with someone was when she obtusely compared her imprisonment to Rand's. She clearly knows some details of his capture, and yet she compares a prison cell with a coffin, spanking with beating, and her fears for the tower with Rand's fears for the fate of the entire world. And to top that off, Rand was forced to watch his lover being beaten even harder than he was. Egwene just seems out of touch with people. She understands how they think and work, and she can negotiate well enough, but she doesn't actually feel for them. Nicola dies because of her bad planning, and all we get is a sentence or two of mild regret followed by justification. Siuan saves her life, but Egwene is too paranoid to trust her. Nynaeve's experiences were so far beyond any pain we've seen caused to Egwene that it's mindboggling, yet this is done for pure political expediency. Compare Egwene's thought process to any other major character; the only one who somewhat matches is Dark Rand.
As I've said before, my biggest issue with Egwene is that she falls into the Pratchettian definition of evil: she treats people as things. One of the only times in the last few books that I can recall her even trying to empathise with someone was when she obtusely compared her imprisonment to Rand's. She clearly knows some details of his capture, and yet she compares a prison cell with a coffin, spanking with beating, and her fears for the tower with Rand's fears for the fate of the entire world. And to top that off, Rand was forced to watch his lover being beaten even harder than he was. Egwene just seems out of touch with people. She understands how they think and work, and she can negotiate well enough, but she doesn't actually feel for them. Nicola dies because of her bad planning, and all we get is a sentence or two of mild regret followed by justification. Siuan saves her life, but Egwene is too paranoid to trust her. Nynaeve's experiences were so far beyond any pain we've seen caused to Egwene that it's mindboggling, yet this is done for pure political expediency. Compare Egwene's thought process to any other major character; the only one who somewhat matches is Dark Rand.
I have not read Pratchett so I won't comment his type of evil. I agree with you Egwene doesn't empathize well. That doesn't make her evil. I don't know if you can blame Egwene for Nynaeve's experiences during the testing. Saerin rounded on the other testers for the scenes they created during the testing. Romanda, Lelaine, Rubinde are all responsible for the worst parts of the testing, not Egwene. All of the Aes Sedai, except Egwene and Elayne, have gone through the testing and don't seem worse for the wear. I don't recall having read anywhere in the series that Egwene should expect Nyneave's test to be so brutal. From Egwene experience Nyneave's test should have been the norm that all Aes Sedai go through.
Yes it was politcally expedient for Nyneave to go through the tests. Both Egwene and Nyneave would benefit. I just don't see how Egwene should have expected the brutal test that Romanda, Lelaine and Rubinde created.
She's had a month now - why aren't the Yellow and Green Ajahs out on the blight border holding back the tide? Because Egwene is thinking like Dark Rand; it's all about winning the LB, not about winning a future for humanity. A person can have all the traits and abilities of legendary leadership, but if they place that leadership before their own humanity then they are nothing more than an administrative machine.
I agree with on parts of this. Where are the Aes Sedai helping the borderlanders? Why is Egwene still getting information from pigeons? Why aren't sisters all over Randland getting their information first hand? Egwene should know there is a thing called traveling. Where are the teams of Aes Sedai training for battle together? If you want the different Ajahs to start working together and building teamwork you should make them work together. Have 5 or 6 sisters from different Ajah's work together as a team. Fighting together, healing together, getting intelligence together. Ask the Great Captain Gareth Bryne to work with them on being more battle worthy.
I just don't think Egwene is thinking like Dark Rand. I think she has so much to do somethings slip through the cracks.
Egwene, a poor leader?
16/12/2010 05:59:15 PM
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Egwene isn't supposed to be a leader. She's a dictator and a politician.
16/12/2010 08:21:13 PM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM
- 998 Views
If the Shadow had removed Elaida so Egwene was Amyrlin whilst Rand was still Dark ...
16/12/2010 11:56:08 PM
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Same thing if Elaida was in charge when meeting w/ Dark Rand. *NM*
17/12/2010 02:10:20 AM
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Except Rand wouldn't go to the WT with Elaida in charge, without having to fight
17/12/2010 02:50:18 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 03:07:40 AM
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Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are?
17/12/2010 04:52:34 AM
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Re: Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are?
17/12/2010 05:44:30 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 02:30:48 PM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 08:25:39 PM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
18/12/2010 05:06:21 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM
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Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. *NM*
20/12/2010 12:14:55 AM
- 533 Views
Re: Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends.
20/12/2010 01:24:12 AM
- 924 Views
And the most painful torments were caused by Egwene
20/12/2010 09:31:44 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
20/12/2010 12:57:42 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
20/12/2010 02:02:05 AM
- 939 Views
She has the same power base as any Amyrlin - the Aes Sedai, the artisans, Guards & citizens of TV
17/12/2010 05:51:20 PM
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Ta'veren vs. Mary Sue
17/12/2010 07:33:28 PM
- 1336 Views
I see them as being the same thing.
17/12/2010 08:11:30 PM
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I don't think the case can be made for Rand having it easy
17/12/2010 11:04:58 PM
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I would say that in the grand scheme of things, Rand's had good to balance out the bad.
20/12/2010 06:27:35 PM
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Funniest statement I've ever seen on here.
18/12/2010 05:22:28 AM
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But you are just undervaluing Egwene's struggles in comparison to the other characters.
20/12/2010 06:17:17 PM
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Re: But you are just undervaluing Egwene's struggles in comparison to the other characters.
22/12/2010 05:28:01 PM
- 1049 Views
Yes, but for completely different reasons...
18/12/2010 12:35:23 AM
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You think Egwene has more power than Tuon?
18/12/2010 12:27:01 PM
- 827 Views
Definitely...
18/12/2010 03:24:12 PM
- 864 Views
I think comparing Egwene to McCain is asking for trouble on several fronts.
20/12/2010 12:33:04 AM
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She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 02:41:32 AM
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RJ is more powerful.
20/12/2010 03:25:49 AM
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Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 09:46:22 AM
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Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 09:55:03 AM
- 808 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 10:27:59 AM
- 891 Views