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That's just it: Egwene is not only wrong, she's narratively wrong. Joel Send a noteboard - 19/12/2010 11:30:35 PM
Interpreting the 23 stars in this way clearly leads to an interpretation of the sphere as the Tower, with Rand then leading to a collapse of its power and authority - something he would do with sadness (the shaking of his head) but would do if it were necessary. (The ropes are potentially the ties that bind the nations to the Tower). There is potentially an event coming soon at which he will do just that - the confrontation at the Field of Merrilor, where he and Egwene will confront each other over what must be done next, vying for the support of the world's leaders.

It is particularly ironic that Egwene has interpreted the dream in the opposite way, thus indirectly setting into motion the very events that will bring about the outcome it predicts.

Thoughts?


Personally, I'd love it if Rand's meeting there meant the end of the WT's (and Egwene's) stranglehold on the world. Unfortunately, I think DomA is correct in his assessment and Egwene will be "right" yet again. I think RJ must have had some sort of directive that Egwene could never be wrong about anything. It makes me ill, but what do you expect for a Mary Sue character?

That said, I'd like to point something out about Rand's meeting with her. I've seen numerous people claiming that Egwene was not affected by Rand and is immune to his ta'veren nature, but that isn't true. She got dizzy when he arrived, a clear sign, one she even recognized, that she was affected by him. So while Egwene may be little miss perfect mary sue pukefest, she isn't immune to ta'veren.

Jordan's been setting up for Rand to deliberately break the Seals since he lifted the seige of Cairhien; what was that, TSR, TFoH? As I noted above, even Perrin gives Egwene a funny look when she suggests talking him out of his plan to deal with the Seals. She's no longer simply athwart Rand, but the Creator himself, and I don't think even Mary Sue can win a game of chicken with the author.

In fact, I'm increasingly wondering if all this has just been a build up for making Egwene some sort of tragic martyr figure in Rands story, but whether or not that's the case I do think Jordan's set her up on a high horse just to take her down a peg. None of her lessons in humility ever seem to take; even when she nominally accepts them her reaction seems to be along the lines of "ah, yes, I am so brilliant that I see how I was wrong before, and having learned that lesson I am now incapable of repeating the mistake". Like when profligates "see the light", answer an altar call and then assume having recognized their faults and accepting redemption makes them invulnerable to any further transgression. She's not as bad as ever, she's WORSE, because of her cavalier belief that having been humbled and accepted it makes her so superior to others. Of course, all that really means is that she's at such a pinnacle of conceit that even Elaida and Niall would be gasping for breath, and in a perfect position for an epic fall to earth.

What it boils down to is that Egwene has made up her mind to stop Rand from doing something Jordan made very clear MUST be done. Ultimately, she can't succeed anyway; either Rand will break the Seals at a time of his own choosing when he's in a position to provide new ones, or they will continue to decay until the DO breaks them himself. No one can really stop it, not even Egwene. Yet, once again, Jordan's already well established that Rand WILL do it, and Egwene can bring every fictional army in Randland to prevent it but she'll still fail because the Creator has spoken. She'll either back down with as much grace as she can muster and get out of Rands way, or he and Jordan will simply run her over completely.
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The significance of 23 stars (TOM Spoilers) - 14/12/2010 11:48:55 PM 3720 Views
It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 02:46:33 AM 1575 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 04:39:17 AM 1199 Views
I think people aren't giving Egwene enough credit. - 15/12/2010 04:59:09 AM 1254 Views
She's not bringing everyone for a discussion, but for leverage to force him to change his mind. - 19/12/2010 09:54:49 PM 1178 Views
- 20/12/2010 01:50:39 AM 1174 Views
Re: - 20/12/2010 04:37:24 AM 1018 Views
Huh? - 20/12/2010 05:09:39 AM 1114 Views
I find the theory - 20/12/2010 09:18:34 AM 1016 Views
That's a new one to me - 20/12/2010 09:45:09 AM 1109 Views
Your theory is very unlikely - 20/12/2010 09:50:26 AM 1121 Views
If it was a plant, why would it be so oblique? - 29/12/2010 07:22:58 AM 974 Views
Re: - 20/12/2010 08:09:53 PM 1204 Views
That's not true. - 21/12/2010 02:22:50 AM 1256 Views
Sadly, the thing you reference four times isn't actually anywhere in the book. - 29/12/2010 03:17:15 AM 1246 Views
+1 - 29/12/2010 07:10:41 AM 1135 Views
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think I love you. (edited) - 29/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1392 Views
Ah, if only I could sell the concept of sister-wives.... - 29/12/2010 07:09:56 PM 1056 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 12:43:49 PM 1614 Views
Dear lord, you wrote the Egwene haters' ultimate fantasy right there - 19/12/2010 01:41:55 AM 1124 Views
Don't think of use as Egwene haters... - 19/12/2010 04:32:11 AM 1077 Views
One problematic issue...This assumes the Dark One cannot hold himself back once the Seals are broken - 15/12/2010 07:57:53 AM 1258 Views
Err, it's the other way around - 15/12/2010 09:00:38 AM 1186 Views
I see. It's the same thing, really, just looking at it from the opposite perspective... - 15/12/2010 09:14:22 AM 1263 Views
Don't you know it's all about the posturing - 15/12/2010 09:40:15 AM 1227 Views
It's more that you take it out of context - 15/12/2010 11:32:36 AM 1236 Views
So then... - 15/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1212 Views
Re: So then... - 16/12/2010 03:39:19 AM 1141 Views
Re: So then... - 16/12/2010 08:11:37 AM 1106 Views
Mierin - 16/12/2010 08:13:55 AM 1319 Views
It would be a good strategy for a conventional war, but - 16/12/2010 07:32:30 AM 1157 Views
Nature of the DO - 15/12/2010 10:38:24 PM 1045 Views
While I agree overall, I think this is a case where Rand/TDR mistakes his role - 15/12/2010 05:37:25 PM 1017 Views
I don't see why Egwene would oppose his plan - 15/12/2010 06:17:47 PM 1039 Views
I don't think that's the issue. - 15/12/2010 07:31:03 PM 1102 Views
I think Egwene is successful and Rand has to go to the Seanchan for female channeler assistance - 18/12/2010 12:47:54 AM 1160 Views
Egwene's dream seems a little more personal than that - 18/12/2010 04:55:37 AM 1002 Views
Yes - 18/12/2010 07:57:35 AM 1033 Views
Actually, I think Tuon will capture her, and then release her. *NM* - 18/12/2010 02:47:42 PM 557 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 18/12/2010 02:48:40 PM 1044 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 18/12/2010 03:28:57 PM 1032 Views
Those are vewings and prophesies... - 18/12/2010 03:43:55 PM 928 Views
I wish - 16/12/2010 08:29:23 PM 1082 Views
That's just it: Egwene is not only wrong, she's narratively wrong. - 19/12/2010 11:30:35 PM 1480 Views
Man, that's the best take on Egwene I have ever read. - 20/12/2010 12:38:07 AM 1070 Views
+1 - 20/12/2010 01:07:24 AM 1155 Views
You may be onto something there. - 20/12/2010 01:35:46 AM 1093 Views
Thanks. - 20/12/2010 01:24:42 AM 1053 Views
Re: That's just it: Egwene is not only wrong, she's narratively wrong. - 20/12/2010 04:39:57 PM 1168 Views
Wish I'd read this sooner, 'cos I agree on several points. - 29/12/2010 03:38:59 AM 1106 Views
Re: Wish I'd read this sooner, 'cos I agree on several points. - 29/12/2010 07:32:49 AM 1065 Views
It seems an odd oversight, yes; I can't even recall her being Delved when the truth was revealed. - 29/12/2010 12:40:00 PM 1104 Views
Ensure this value has at most 100 characters (it has 101). - 29/12/2010 03:00:22 PM 2819 Views
Ah, good point; Rand might have to do the job himself. - 29/12/2010 06:43:44 PM 1065 Views
More likely to be Flinn. - 29/12/2010 08:18:19 PM 1087 Views
Maybe, once he knows the signs and techniques. - 30/12/2010 03:10:27 PM 1083 Views
Not sure if Rand had seized the source yet - he wouldn't have wanted to do it in front of Ramshalan - 30/12/2010 03:15:43 PM 1037 Views
Good point, too. - 30/12/2010 03:17:06 PM 1024 Views
He was holding the gateway open. *NM* - 30/12/2010 04:27:25 PM 533 Views
Thanks, had forgotten that. - 31/12/2010 04:43:25 AM 1015 Views

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