Active Users:618 Time:24/12/2024 05:39:37 PM
Egwene already has it figured out... DomA Send a noteboard - 19/12/2010 08:51:26 PM
The revelation it was originally used to Bind criminal channellers would not come as as big a shock as it might have earlier on. What would worry the AS most is if stories about this could leak outside the Tower, as this would damage their reputation a lot. Rand would know this, and I think the last goal on his mind right now is to cripple the White Tower or its reputation, so I really don't see him ever exposing the Binder publicly, let alone at the meeting of the Light at Merrilor. If anything, he is asking Egwene to rise up and use the power of Tar Valon the way it's meant to be used, to bring and keep the Light together (because he has too much to do himself to see to that himself anymore. He needs the leaders among the Light to step up and take these responsabilities).

If Rand has a demand to make to Tar Valon at Merrilor, it's far, far more likely a request to officially welcome back the male channellers at the Tower (as Guardians or as Servant, it could be either - but probably best for the men if they adopt the title of Aes Sedai). Rand is now perfectly aware of what the BT has been used for by the Shadow, and what's about to happen when the name/uniform of Asha'man can no longer be really told apart from that of the BT Dreadlords. The BT is finished. Rande owes it to the Asha'man to "save them" from this association to the Shadow they're about to gain, and find them a new place in society. He knows calls himself Aes Sedai to Cadsuane, with pride. It sounds obvious what LTT would want for these men. They were cast off from the organization because of the Taint, which is he ultimately responsible for. I think Rand is going to demand of Egwene that she accepts to give the Asha'man back their rightful place among Aes Sedai now that the Taint has been Cleansed. IMO, that's one of the things he had in mind when he told her they could discuss the matter of bondings etc. at the Field of Merrilor. Rand will have to bring some changes, because he's changed his views completely about these men being weapons (and he feels guilty for what he's done to these men), and yet he's currently stuck with a structure and symbols that emphasize what he now think is wrong: the novices are called Soldiers, they progress and gain a silver sword etc. These names and symbols aren't there to stay.

By joining the Tower, the Guardians would bring balance to the Servants of All again, a balance they had lost with the Breaking, with the loss of their male half. By abandonning their uniforms and name to call themselves Aes Sedai, the Asha'man would clearly dissociate themselves from the BT, and screw the Shadow's plans to use the confusion (because right now, if a group of Asha'man appears anywhere in the LB, there's now way to be sure they're with the Light or the Shadow... even some of Logain's men have been turned.). If the soldiers were to be Novices, the Dedicated Accepted and the full Asha'man Aes Sedai, anyone showing up in black would clearly be a Dreadlord. It's bad enough as it is that so many BA are running around with the ageless look....

Basically, I'm just posting this to hear other's peoples thoughts...

So in TOM Rand Sedai says to Cadsuane something to the affect of..."I suspect you are my junior by decades at least" As well as telling Cadsuane that he was 400 years old on the day he 'died' in AOL.

So take your perspective and put yourself in Cadsuane's head and what does she hear? What she hears is 400 years old and thinks, "Impossible" I'm the oldest Aes Sedai and I'm near death at 300 years old. The other question that floats in her head is "How does he know that I'm his junior by decades?". The other question floating in Cadsuane's head (TGS) regarding all this is why other channelers that aren't Aes Sedai don't have the ageless look.

So put all this together and we have Cadsuane coming to conclusions that will not sit favorbly in her eyes of losing half her life. What I also gather from Rand's conversation with Cadsuane is he knows about the Criminal Binder and this was a subtle hint (perhaps?) that it is on his mind.

I've been hoping, regardless of how I feel about Aes Sedai as whole, that this issue of the Criminal Binder could be addressed and I'm seeing a definite possibility of Rand Sedai addressing this to the Aes Sedai on the Fields of Merrilor. What do you guys think. Will Rand ignore the issue, knowing that he does in fact know what's really going on, or will this hopefully and thank the Light finally be addressed?


That Aes Sedai shorten their lives as long as they are under the effects of the Three Oaths was her main argument to sell her project of having the Aes Sedai retire into the Kin and, when doing so, removing their Oaths.

Right now, all Cadsuane would have to accept to gain years of lives would be to retire, which wouldn't sit so easily with her (and she isn't obsessed with living for centuries more. Cadsuane was determined to live until the LB and see it through. She hates living in retirement (as well be dead, in her own words), and she's never liked life at the Tower, or duties at the Tower. Until she finds something worth living for post TG, the possibility she's barely in her middle years is likely to make her moan more than anything.)

It's doubtful Egwene's plan is the "final resolution", as the more developments there are, the less her plan makes any sense. She doesn't yet realizes how early in life the sisters die, for one thing. She doesn't yet know some could live for over 600 years ( I think the oldest she knows about is 400 years old, IRRC.. so she thinks AS die early in their old age, around the equivalent of 60-65 instead of 80 y.o. - that they are deprived of their old age in peaceful retirement, in other words. That's wrong, they rather die at their peak, in mid-life). Her plan as it stands would remove from active duty at the White Tower all the most experienced sisters, forcing them to renounce their Aes Sedai status in mid-life! Those ex-sisters would then join the Kin, in retirement. Egwene herself calls it retirement - she has no plan to provide a purpose to these women, merely a plan to bind them to the Tower and to the Kin's Rule to replace Tower Law after their retirement.

The Kin (Alise's faction) is currently striving for a purpose. It doesn't want idle lives, forced to hide their channelling from everyone because they are not Aes Sedai, forced to hide they are even channellers, living the lives of "approved wilders" under the authority of the Tower but not recognized as sisters. Elayne is offering them such a purpose: to provide channelling services to her two nations.

And this is where Egwene's plans and Elayne's plans clash completely and lose all logic.

Egwene plans to have the Aes Sedai bound by the Three Oaths and calling themselves Servants of All until retirement - but without any noticeable change to the Tower's philosophy - so a political organization, striving for influence over the nations - after which Elayne has them join an organization that provides services to the people and rulers (herself, as she sees it - but if she wins her point to have these women serve openly the nations, she will never get the approval of the Hall-Amyrlin to let the Kin serve only Andor-Cairhien. The only way the Hall could accept this is by opening "Kin houses" in every capital that accept their presence and the limitations the Tower will place on their services). Assuming this happens, these women would be the ones the rulers would need the most to trust. They would have to be sure they won't provide weapons made with the power to their rivals, that they won't join their wars, Heal one side but not the other on the battlefied, or even provide Travelling to armies. and yet... they would no longer be Aes Sedai nor bound by the Three Oaths - they would have to be trusted on their word alone... while the Aes Sedai who don't serve the nations with their channelling would be! The whole thing is totally upside down... It's "the Kin" of old/retired sisters that should retire to Tar Valon, to work in the administration of the Tower, to provide teaching and training, make the organization benefit of the wisdom of their years... and it's the Sisters, bound by the three Oaths (with or without the Binder), who should make a career of active service to the nations in the world, until they choose to retire and return to work for the organization in Tar Valon, or retire from a working life.

Somewhere, all the clashing developments will make a final picture emerge, but I doubt it will be exactly what Elayne plans, or what Egwene plans. For one thing, all their plans currently make complete abstraction of the male channellers, and this won't work for very long. Sooner or later, the women will have to take them, and the growing desire for mixed gender work by both men and women who experienced it, into account. The Aiel WO will soon face the same issue: what should the Aiel male channellers become, and if channellers have been so valuable to the Aiel that every last "learner" has been found and trained as WO for millenia, wouldn't it goes without saying that the WO can't let half the Aiel channellers remain undiscovered, their talents wasted? Of course, the same is true for the Windfinders. They've been invaluable to their people, but their numbers could be doubled, and their services greatly expanded by mix gender work...

The Aes Sedai will be able to abandon the Binder when they are trusted again. If they return to serve in the world post TG, this is probably not the best time to abandon the Binder and replace it by simple Oaths of office, because such a drastic change in the Tower's methods, goals and purposes will spark many suspicions and fears at first ("what are they up to, really?";). It would be much better to wait a few decades and consider abandonning the Binder when the services of the Aes Sedai have made them as respected and valued as the Windfinders and WO in their own cultures. Right now the Aes Sedai have drilled for millenia in the general consciousness that they need to be bound in order to be trusted not to lie, and not to use the OP as a weapon. They've painted themselves into a corner when they added these two Oaths to their post WOS/post Breaking far more sensible promise not to make any OP weapon for anyone. With the Third Oath, they remind people AS are intrinsically dangerous to others, if not for their Oath, and with the First Oath, the worst, they tell people they are dishonest and devious by nature and must bind themselves against lying straight out... a reputation they've hasten to prove by way too liberally betraying the spirit of the first Oath by omission and deception. The people are not as much fooled by the purpose of the Oaths as some believe. Oaths in the WOT world, at least in Andor, are asked of convicted criminals to decrease the harshness of punishment (you will serve under oath, or else pay for your crimes). The Seanchan know the principle too: rather than executing some criminals, they are oath-sworn into slavery/service for life as da'covale. This happened to Domon for the offense of smuggling, notably.


Reply to message
*Spoilers From TOM* - That Criminal Binder... - 19/12/2010 01:42:46 PM 1538 Views
Re: *Spoilers From TOM* - That Criminal Binder... - 19/12/2010 02:51:11 PM 964 Views
Egwene already has it figured out... - 19/12/2010 08:51:26 PM 1003 Views
Re: Egwene already has it figured out... - 19/12/2010 10:04:07 PM 990 Views
Re: Egwene already has it figured out... - 20/12/2010 02:18:33 AM 863 Views
I see this as a chance to break the hold of the WT on the world - 19/12/2010 10:19:33 PM 696 Views
Re: I see this as a chance to break the hold of the WT on the world - 20/12/2010 03:28:49 AM 897 Views
Our disagreement is about how the new WT will be structured. - 20/12/2010 06:16:00 PM 930 Views
Your thinking is flawed - 21/12/2010 10:01:05 PM 935 Views
I think that's besides the point. - 21/12/2010 10:17:18 PM 747 Views

Reply to Message