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Re: So then... DomA Send a noteboard - 16/12/2010 03:39:19 AM
Demandred is going to lead the attack on Randland, while Moridin will guard the Blight and Shayol Ghul.

It would fit with everything we know of Demandred up to now, and also live up to BS's promise that the secrecy around his identity will pay off in the end.


Yes, I believe it would.

I still don't really believe Demandred has gone the "alias" and MoM way -not after scorning the others so much for doing just that. If he did that (but I really doubt it) Demandred will have gone Mesaana's way, and merely adopted a low-level by-stander out of convenience, while directing the show as Demandred with his pawns. But unlike someone like Lanfear for instance, I think Demandred is way too proud of who he is to adopt a plan like this. It would be important to Demandred to be seen as Demandred. If he can't be seen as Demandred, if he can't lead as Demandred and have people chose to follow Demandred, he won't be seen at all. He'll stay hidden until he can come out. And I think it's exactly what he did. I think Demandred was also clever enough to understand he could plan some great lines and the long term preparations, but until the last months it was way, way to early to know the hand he was dealt by Rand. He's secured his power over his followers, adapted his plans and his pawns' skills as the situation developped (eg: recently, it would have become a crucial issue to have mix gender circles, and to train his men and women to face these. Demandred was taken by surprise at Shadar Logoth - he faced something he wasn't expecting to face.. but I think we can be 100% sure Demandred has taken the lesson of the Cleansing to heart, and has now prepared for mixed circles, paralis-nets and weave-breakers, san'angreal and so on. It was a massive advantage for Demandred to stay hidden and give Rand no inkling whatsoever of what he will face.. before Demandred strikes. The other generals scorned the third Age. I think it fits more a man like Demandred to learn who is his enemy. A general who follow his prejudices rather than facts sets himself for disaster. If Demandred doesn't have Taim as one of his lieutenants as I believe, I think he would be stupid then not to have spies all over the place in Taim's faction, and not to have analyzed, by questionning Black Sisters, what the Green Ajah can do. But I think it's significant Mesaana called Elza "our woman", not "my woman near Rand".).

I think the big secret about his "identity" is that he has none, and why (he didn't need one, and his plans will reveal the why of that).

A scenario like this would explain a great deal of things in the series, even why the other three generals could not be shown as too succesful, because in the finale Demandred had to outshine them by a large margin.

Of course, this would totally justify Demandred to have scorned the others for moving too fast and too openly, especially if he regains all their power bases. Demandred could say" see, all they had to do was plan well and be patient to wait the proper time to conquer. Now I have these power bases, when it counts for the Shadow to hold them.".

That would also explain a lot the relationship between Moridin and Demandred. It would mean Moridin has long known of Demandred's plans and ambitions and somewhat managed to gain at least the appearance of loyalty from him. Moridin is probably pleased to have at his disposal someone so competent to mount a war in the South and hold the Light there. It is also rather clever of Moridin to insist to keep complete authority over matter at SG, while giving Demandred what will motivate him the most: his face-off with Rand in the South. It's around SG that Demandred might be a danger to the Shadow, as he might well place his obsession with Rand above Shai'tan, probably does in fact. It would also have been clever of Moridin to order Demandred to provide him with some of his soldiers to man his palace at SG. It all suggests Demandred and Moridin have a more functional relationship than I used to believe, that Demandred has managed to avoid any clash with the Nae'blis so far. Significantly, Moridin has always respected Demandred's desire for secrecy. Even in TGS, he didn't push him - his move to ask him to discuss his plans in front of Graendal was more a reminder of his authority, and his displeasure over Semirhage, than anything. Moridin let Demandred get away with a very obscure answer.

I think this suggests the "star" antagonist in the LB will be Demandred. He will be the foe most characters are facing (all, my hunch says, but Rand and Egwene). I tend to think LTT intends to frustrate him of his battlefield face-off. He will throw Mat and the great generals at him, but won't lead himself. This would frustrate Demandred no end (he might even conceivably see it as a slap in the face, that LTT throws non-channellers against him... or he might perceive it as a sign of cowardice and fear that LTT does not dare face him... it's hard to tell), and might lead him to interfere with events at SG, (against possible orders from the DO or Moridin) as his last chance to finally get what he wants, because LTT has managed to elude him so far. As Graendal pointed out, people with pesonalities like Demandred are to an extent predictable (so is someone like Lanfear, or Sammael).

I think the "last inning" of the book might belong to Shaidar Haran and Moridin, but it's by and large Demandred and his cronies that will steal the show in the LB.

RJ was preparing the ground for some sort of merging between Shai'tan and Moridin, which suggests in effect Moridin will become in a way the main vehicle for Shai'tan's character in the LB, a way to show the GL in action through the finale, before even SG.

This incidentally casts a whole new light on the matter of Ishamael "pretending" to be the Great Lord. After the signs of merging in TOM (and by this I mean stuff like Moridin now hearing the DO directly in his mind, even outside the Pit of Doom), I wonder more and more if there is a physical aspect to this (and the link to Rand suggests there is one (it seems the TP.. ie: the DO, leaped through Moridin to latch himself at Rand's mind at Shadar Logoth, in effect catching Moridin in between(, and so does the "madness" derived from the Taint), and if there's one it could mean it wasn't madness that made Ishamael "half believe" he was the Great Lord. It rather suggests Ishamael was so far gone in the True Power before his death that he shared his mind with Shai'tan in a way very reminescent of Rand and LTT, and much the same way, it happened to Ishamael that Shai'tan kind of poke for him, that his words expressed Shai'tan's thoughts. This, in turn, might explain why Shai'tan created Shaidar Haran as a substitute, after he lost Ishamael as his "vehicle", and wouldn't get him back in this role for quite some time, until Moridin had used the True Power enough... which in turn might explain, as Demandred noticed, that Moridin is really going over the top in his use of the TP since his transmigration: lost ground to regain before the LB. We also know that Shaidar Haran is very limited in the ways he can interact with the world. Moridin makes a much better flesh and blood vehicle for Shai'tan. Of course, it would mean the whole thing about a Nae'blis is a sham, a temporary solution before Shai'tan was back in Moridin's mind to "guide him". If Shai'tan "knows" Ishamael as intimately as sharing many of his thoughts, and seeing through his eyes (or the absence thereof), it explains very well why he trusts Ishamael so much. In effect, Moridin would be all but mindtrapped by Shai'tan.

All that said, it's fairly clear Lanfear is about to return as a main antagonist. The epilogue foreshadows the first act will be hers. I still don't understand how some could be fooled by her act. We know from her own POV how much she hates Rand now... and couple this with Shaidar Haran's mention that the matter of Rand is someone else's opportunity now. Clearly, Last Chance has been given a Last Chance, and this new strategy is Moridin/Shai'tan's answer to Rand's epiphany. Rand remembered he has a heart...the Shadow threw at him Mierin the poor victim and see if her predicament will break his heart and he'll fall for the bait (and it appears she'll have to work harder... at the end of the POV, Rand remembered he should think of Mierin as Lanfear...). Lanfear giving Rand the key for the Bore.. yeah, right... She's far more likely to be Moridin's ploy to guide Rand toward the way the Shadow intends to use him alive at SG. She's charged with delivering Rand to Moridin so he can kill him, I bet. She's probably been promised her freedom if she succeeds.. and the final death if she screws up or put a foot wrong and displays even the shadow of betrayal...





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The significance of 23 stars (TOM Spoilers) - 14/12/2010 11:48:55 PM 3721 Views
It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 02:46:33 AM 1575 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 04:39:17 AM 1200 Views
I think people aren't giving Egwene enough credit. - 15/12/2010 04:59:09 AM 1254 Views
She's not bringing everyone for a discussion, but for leverage to force him to change his mind. - 19/12/2010 09:54:49 PM 1178 Views
- 20/12/2010 01:50:39 AM 1174 Views
Re: - 20/12/2010 04:37:24 AM 1018 Views
Huh? - 20/12/2010 05:09:39 AM 1114 Views
I find the theory - 20/12/2010 09:18:34 AM 1016 Views
That's a new one to me - 20/12/2010 09:45:09 AM 1110 Views
Your theory is very unlikely - 20/12/2010 09:50:26 AM 1122 Views
If it was a plant, why would it be so oblique? - 29/12/2010 07:22:58 AM 975 Views
Re: - 20/12/2010 08:09:53 PM 1204 Views
That's not true. - 21/12/2010 02:22:50 AM 1256 Views
Sadly, the thing you reference four times isn't actually anywhere in the book. - 29/12/2010 03:17:15 AM 1246 Views
+1 - 29/12/2010 07:10:41 AM 1135 Views
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think I love you. (edited) - 29/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1392 Views
Ah, if only I could sell the concept of sister-wives.... - 29/12/2010 07:09:56 PM 1056 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 15/12/2010 12:43:49 PM 1614 Views
Dear lord, you wrote the Egwene haters' ultimate fantasy right there - 19/12/2010 01:41:55 AM 1124 Views
Don't think of use as Egwene haters... - 19/12/2010 04:32:11 AM 1077 Views
One problematic issue...This assumes the Dark One cannot hold himself back once the Seals are broken - 15/12/2010 07:57:53 AM 1258 Views
Err, it's the other way around - 15/12/2010 09:00:38 AM 1187 Views
I see. It's the same thing, really, just looking at it from the opposite perspective... - 15/12/2010 09:14:22 AM 1264 Views
Don't you know it's all about the posturing - 15/12/2010 09:40:15 AM 1227 Views
It's more that you take it out of context - 15/12/2010 11:32:36 AM 1237 Views
So then... - 15/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1212 Views
Re: So then... - 16/12/2010 03:39:19 AM 1142 Views
Re: So then... - 16/12/2010 08:11:37 AM 1107 Views
Mierin - 16/12/2010 08:13:55 AM 1319 Views
It would be a good strategy for a conventional war, but - 16/12/2010 07:32:30 AM 1158 Views
Nature of the DO - 15/12/2010 10:38:24 PM 1045 Views
While I agree overall, I think this is a case where Rand/TDR mistakes his role - 15/12/2010 05:37:25 PM 1017 Views
I don't see why Egwene would oppose his plan - 15/12/2010 06:17:47 PM 1039 Views
I don't think that's the issue. - 15/12/2010 07:31:03 PM 1102 Views
I think Egwene is successful and Rand has to go to the Seanchan for female channeler assistance - 18/12/2010 12:47:54 AM 1161 Views
Egwene's dream seems a little more personal than that - 18/12/2010 04:55:37 AM 1003 Views
Yes - 18/12/2010 07:57:35 AM 1034 Views
Actually, I think Tuon will capture her, and then release her. *NM* - 18/12/2010 02:47:42 PM 557 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 18/12/2010 02:48:40 PM 1044 Views
Re: It would be a first... - 18/12/2010 03:28:57 PM 1032 Views
Those are vewings and prophesies... - 18/12/2010 03:43:55 PM 929 Views
I wish - 16/12/2010 08:29:23 PM 1082 Views
That's just it: Egwene is not only wrong, she's narratively wrong. - 19/12/2010 11:30:35 PM 1480 Views
Man, that's the best take on Egwene I have ever read. - 20/12/2010 12:38:07 AM 1070 Views
+1 - 20/12/2010 01:07:24 AM 1156 Views
You may be onto something there. - 20/12/2010 01:35:46 AM 1093 Views
Thanks. - 20/12/2010 01:24:42 AM 1054 Views
Re: That's just it: Egwene is not only wrong, she's narratively wrong. - 20/12/2010 04:39:57 PM 1169 Views
Wish I'd read this sooner, 'cos I agree on several points. - 29/12/2010 03:38:59 AM 1106 Views
Re: Wish I'd read this sooner, 'cos I agree on several points. - 29/12/2010 07:32:49 AM 1066 Views
It seems an odd oversight, yes; I can't even recall her being Delved when the truth was revealed. - 29/12/2010 12:40:00 PM 1104 Views
Ensure this value has at most 100 characters (it has 101). - 29/12/2010 03:00:22 PM 2819 Views
Ah, good point; Rand might have to do the job himself. - 29/12/2010 06:43:44 PM 1065 Views
More likely to be Flinn. - 29/12/2010 08:18:19 PM 1088 Views
Maybe, once he knows the signs and techniques. - 30/12/2010 03:10:27 PM 1083 Views
Not sure if Rand had seized the source yet - he wouldn't have wanted to do it in front of Ramshalan - 30/12/2010 03:15:43 PM 1038 Views
Good point, too. - 30/12/2010 03:17:06 PM 1024 Views
He was holding the gateway open. *NM* - 30/12/2010 04:27:25 PM 534 Views
Thanks, had forgotten that. - 31/12/2010 04:43:25 AM 1015 Views

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