When she is thinking she can take down 5 AS if she acted fast she didn't know about the forkroot, they start talking about forkroot and she immediately starts thinking about what Nynaeve had told her about the stuff.
Okay. Irrelevant, but okay...
Once she meets up with Silviana she is thinking she's at a point where she can embrace the source, but with no idea how much weaker she may be, all she knows is the story she heard from Nynaeve which would include the difficulty in channeling.
Why? What makes you think Nynaeve even knew that once the forkroot dampens down enough that you can channel, you cannot channel the full amount? Or that if she knew, she told Egwene. It certainly doesn't come up in the conversation she has with Egwene!
So, when Egwene met Silviana, all she knew was tha Forkroot dampens your ability to channel, and she was certain that the effects were beginning to lift now. From her PoV, it is clear that she thinks that it is Silviana's strength, and that fact that she assumed the shield without leaving a gap, that prevent her from reaching for the source, and not the forkroot. She may have been completely wrong, and the forkroot may have been dampening her strength even then.
But there is no doubt that Egwene thinks that Silviana is strong enough to shield her, and because of the forkroot. Which is all that should concern us.
There is no reason to call it out again here as we the readers already know all of this!
That's a load of crap! Such things are often repeated anyway, and till that point, as readers, we did not know that you can have forkroot and still channel lower amounts of the power. We know that only when Silviana tells Egwene about it. So there is every reason for Egwene to think about the forkroot, but she only talks about Silviana's strength.
It's shown over and over in the books that even a very weak dose of Forkroot dampens her ability dramatically...
That was only shown after this scene. Before that, we had exactly one instance of Forkroot use, and it was a very strong dose. You're applying your superior knowledge to the character here, and inferring something completely wrong from her PoV.
she couldn't have broken a shield held by Sorilea!
In which case, the fact that Silviana is far from weak is an irrelevant statement. If, in Egwene's assessment at that time, forkroot really entered her calculations, she would have said that Sorilea could hold her shield, instead of saying Silviana was more than strong enough to hold her shield!
Knowing Silviana is "far from weak" and that her own power would be lower by some as yet unknown degree and given no opening to even attempt to grasp the source she realizes she is stuck.
And how did she know her own power will be lower? Heck, even the readers didn't know that was possible till Silviana informed us! Everyone thought forkroot was an all or nothing deal. You're just using knowledge we had after this scene.
I agree that Amys is likely not as adept at shielding as an AS which likely contributed to Egwene's ability to break the shield, but Egwene was also certainly at a lower strength level in that scene too.
Please note that Egwene did not break the shield. She hammered at it hard, but failed to break it. Amys just says she gets exhausted by holding the shield.
As a comparable situation, see how Aviendha says she needs to put more of the power into her Gateway than Elayne. Amys likely has the same issue. She needs to use all of her strength to maintain a shield on Egwene. With Silviana, Egwene has grown in strength, so Silviana also has to probably use all her strength to hold Egwene. But she can indeed do it, especially since she is likely better than Amys at shielding.
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
- 3111 Views
Yes.
09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
- 1448 Views
No.
09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
- 1297 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
- 1230 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
- 1440 Views
Three things:
09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
- 1232 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
- 1205 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
- 1229 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
- 1143 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue?
09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
- 1238 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
- 789 Views
not really
09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
- 1226 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
- 1176 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
- 768 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
- 1207 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
- 1113 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
- 1227 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
- 1018 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
- 1135 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
- 987 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
- 1169 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
- 1135 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
- 956 Views
where is that quote my friend?
09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
- 1024 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm
09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
- 957 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
- 1082 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
- 1100 Views
Don't be absurd...
09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
- 1111 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
- 1213 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
- 1208 Views
And yet...
09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
- 1132 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
- 1363 Views
Here are te quotes...
09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
- 1135 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
- 1163 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
- 955 Views
Oh nonsense
10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
- 1057 Views
But that's his point.
10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
- 1067 Views
its a useless point
10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
- 1149 Views
Yes, utterly useless...
10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
- 1111 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books...
10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
- 1052 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
- 1066 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
- 1121 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
- 1031 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
- 1012 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
- 1080 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
- 978 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
- 1096 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
- 947 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
- 1183 Views
Re: Yes.
09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
- 1117 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
- 1231 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
- 1174 Views
Nope...
09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
- 873 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
- 969 Views
Nope...
09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
- 1062 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
- 1116 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
- 1048 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced
12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
- 1080 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
- 858 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
- 1099 Views
Thanks for the quote
12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
- 1161 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
- 1059 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
- 1087 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
- 1063 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
- 1259 Views
Mesaana
10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
- 959 Views
agreed
10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
- 1030 Views
Re: agreed
10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
- 899 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
- 966 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
- 1134 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
- 1143 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
- 1005 Views
"clear evidence"
10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
- 1079 Views
Laughable interpretation...
10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
- 1097 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
- 1063 Views
couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
- 1094 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
- 1021 Views
that's what I said! EDIT
11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
- 908 Views
Well...
11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
- 1121 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
- 966 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
- 990 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
- 1002 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
- 1108 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
- 1109 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT
12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
- 1003 Views
Dude...
12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
- 984 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
- 1060 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
- 1064 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
- 1010 Views
She knows but she doesn't know?
13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
- 1076 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
- 1016 Views
And she doesn't know any details...
13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
- 1024 Views
this conversation is so pointless
13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
- 876 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
- 898 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
- 920 Views
Of course its obvious now!
14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
- 1112 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
- 960 Views
Shielding
13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
- 2475 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
- 1062 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
- 1182 Views
There is, actually...
13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
- 966 Views
Meh
14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
- 1062 Views
Well...
14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
- 1094 Views
Re: Well...
14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
- 1065 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
- 964 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
- 1201 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
- 1096 Views
astounding "evidence"
10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
- 1115 Views
Re: astounding "evidence"
11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
- 1126 Views
thanks
11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
- 1259 Views
Re: thanks
12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
- 961 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
- 952 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
- 1059 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
- 1075 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
- 1053 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
- 1045 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
- 1108 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
- 1015 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
- 1076 Views
I don't get the logic here...
09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
- 1106 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
- 1063 Views
And...?
09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
- 1068 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
- 972 Views
That was my interpretation too
10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
- 1015 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
- 1135 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
- 1007 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
- 1001 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
- 1030 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
- 1044 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
- 1075 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
- 977 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
- 1059 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
- 944 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
- 1098 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
- 1116 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
- 1007 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
- 1121 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
- 990 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
- 730 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
- 1008 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
- 1011 Views