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And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM

When she is thinking she can take down 5 AS if she acted fast she didn't know about the forkroot, they start talking about forkroot and she immediately starts thinking about what Nynaeve had told her about the stuff.

Okay. Irrelevant, but okay...

Once she meets up with Silviana she is thinking she's at a point where she can embrace the source, but with no idea how much weaker she may be, all she knows is the story she heard from Nynaeve which would include the difficulty in channeling.

Why? What makes you think Nynaeve even knew that once the forkroot dampens down enough that you can channel, you cannot channel the full amount? Or that if she knew, she told Egwene. It certainly doesn't come up in the conversation she has with Egwene!

So, when Egwene met Silviana, all she knew was tha Forkroot dampens your ability to channel, and she was certain that the effects were beginning to lift now. From her PoV, it is clear that she thinks that it is Silviana's strength, and that fact that she assumed the shield without leaving a gap, that prevent her from reaching for the source, and not the forkroot. She may have been completely wrong, and the forkroot may have been dampening her strength even then.

But there is no doubt that Egwene thinks that Silviana is strong enough to shield her, and because of the forkroot. Which is all that should concern us.

There is no reason to call it out again here as we the readers already know all of this!

That's a load of crap! Such things are often repeated anyway, and till that point, as readers, we did not know that you can have forkroot and still channel lower amounts of the power. We know that only when Silviana tells Egwene about it. So there is every reason for Egwene to think about the forkroot, but she only talks about Silviana's strength.

It's shown over and over in the books that even a very weak dose of Forkroot dampens her ability dramatically...

That was only shown after this scene. Before that, we had exactly one instance of Forkroot use, and it was a very strong dose. You're applying your superior knowledge to the character here, and inferring something completely wrong from her PoV.

she couldn't have broken a shield held by Sorilea!

In which case, the fact that Silviana is far from weak is an irrelevant statement. If, in Egwene's assessment at that time, forkroot really entered her calculations, she would have said that Sorilea could hold her shield, instead of saying Silviana was more than strong enough to hold her shield!

Knowing Silviana is "far from weak" and that her own power would be lower by some as yet unknown degree and given no opening to even attempt to grasp the source she realizes she is stuck.

And how did she know her own power will be lower? Heck, even the readers didn't know that was possible till Silviana informed us! Everyone thought forkroot was an all or nothing deal. You're just using knowledge we had after this scene.

I agree that Amys is likely not as adept at shielding as an AS which likely contributed to Egwene's ability to break the shield, but Egwene was also certainly at a lower strength level in that scene too.

Please note that Egwene did not break the shield. She hammered at it hard, but failed to break it. Amys just says she gets exhausted by holding the shield.

As a comparable situation, see how Aviendha says she needs to put more of the power into her Gateway than Elayne. Amys likely has the same issue. She needs to use all of her strength to maintain a shield on Egwene. With Silviana, Egwene has grown in strength, so Silviana also has to probably use all her strength to hold Egwene. But she can indeed do it, especially since she is likely better than Amys at shielding.
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3203 Views
Yes. - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1521 Views
No. - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1373 Views
Indeed! *NM* - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 746 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1287 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1515 Views
Three things: - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1315 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1214 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1321 Views
Agreed. - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1394 Views
not really - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1309 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1245 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 801 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1279 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1198 Views
Re: not really - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1206 Views
Angreal have buffers - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1234 Views
none of them are very strong - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1203 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1106 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1356 Views
Exactly - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1380 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1244 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1220 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1030 Views
where is that quote my friend? - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1093 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1040 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1188 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1196 Views
Don't be absurd... - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1190 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1134 Views
Nonsense... - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1161 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1269 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1293 Views
And yet... - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1203 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1438 Views
Here are te quotes... - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1235 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1238 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1046 Views
Oh nonsense - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1128 Views
But that's his point. - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1138 Views
its a useless point - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1228 Views
Yes, utterly useless... - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1180 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1134 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1144 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1207 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1095 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1163 Views
What? - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1203 Views
Re: What? - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1179 Views
Oh boohoo... - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1202 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1065 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1186 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1275 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1223 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1189 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 591 Views
Re: Yes. - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1213 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1313 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1247 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 952 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1064 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1143 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1193 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1125 Views
that's the point I'm making - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 997 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1163 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1339 Views
nope - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1275 Views
Mesaana - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1035 Views
agreed - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1103 Views
Re: agreed - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 968 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1054 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1226 Views
yes and no - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1180 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1224 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1110 Views
"clear evidence" - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1166 Views
Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1172 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1193 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1113 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 785 Views
couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1169 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1089 Views
that's what I said! EDIT - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 985 Views
Well... - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1190 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1039 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1064 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1088 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1182 Views
I agree with that completely. - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1117 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1184 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1082 Views
Dude... - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1059 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1137 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1152 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1088 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1157 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1095 Views
And she doesn't know any details... - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1105 Views
this conversation is so pointless - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 970 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 971 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 999 Views
Of course its obvious now! - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1201 Views
Shielding - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2550 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1139 Views
There is, actually... - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1043 Views
Meh - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1153 Views
Well... - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1181 Views
Re: Well... - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1141 Views
Tell Darius that... - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1069 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1045 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1282 Views
You forget... - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1199 Views
astounding "evidence" - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1193 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1207 Views
thanks - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1340 Views
Re: thanks - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1049 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1033 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1138 Views
I don't get the logic here... - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1190 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 844 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1132 Views
And...? - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1137 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1052 Views
That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1104 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1243 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1206 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1089 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 684 Views
And... - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1096 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1106 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1122 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1154 Views
Yes, I did know that. - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1141 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1195 Views
Oops. *NM* - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 747 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1071 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1132 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1223 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1206 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1184 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1339 Views
Help im new! - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1200 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1303 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1108 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 765 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1056 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1079 Views
you misread the topic - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1217 Views
But the debate is moronic because... - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1072 Views

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