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One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM
Dude, you need to back down and relax a little. Really your obsession with this series and the moral connections you make to posters based on what little you read about them is off-putting. You're looking for depth in characters that doesn't exist, especially in a series with such limited character development. You take everything way too seriously.
Oh, please. That's all I get from everyone else. This is one of the first times I have drawn an inference on anyone's character and as I pointed out, it is part of a long-standing ongoing issue in your posts.

You also make assumptions that aren't true, like the fact that I prioritize channeling over children's suffering which is not true at all. The point of the post is not to discuss morality but to discuss why Nynaeve can't obey the rules of a simple test taking place in a ter'angreal. Like other posters you are distracted by the illusions of the test and allow them to defeat you.
They are not illusions - they are intended to be taken as real to ascertain what choice the test subject would make in that situation. The Tower demands that the sisters blindly choose a Tower directive with no tangible point to it and no understanding of the benefits, if any, that proceed from their choice. And that is wrong. While you are right that they are not doing evil in choosing the requirements of the test over the imaginary innocents, the criterion the Tower tests for IS evil. Why have a test if you are going to simply encourage the sisters to ignore the mindset the test requires them to act on?

This is not a matter of seeing depth that is not there, it is extrapolating from a number of data exposed about the Tower and sisters. There is ample evidence that sisters are required to choose the Tower over literally anything else. Cadsuane says explicitly the good of the Tower is supposed to be the driving motivation behind their actions. Faile has numerous historical examples of Aes Sedai turning on their own families or personal feelings for the benefit of the Tower and its agenda. And here we have a test whose "rules" state that an aspiring sister must prove her ability to uphold the Tower's image and pointless rules. And the pointlessness IS the point. The sole value of those weaves is that the Tower demands their initiates perform them. THAT is the choice the Tower "demands of its daughters" that they do something that has no inherent value or interest to anyone at all, and do that thing only because the Tower told them to, regardless of anything else.

You need to channel 100 weaves while they throw everything from dying babies to your tortured spouse at you. Where's the moral dilemma? Its not real! Weave your stuff and gain the shawl and then go out into the real world and be moral. Its not about status or rank or morality. Its about being intelligent enough to not allow a ter'angreal to stop you from weaving a hundred weaves just because it pulls at your heartstrings. And that is why Nynaeve is a failure...
No, that's why you're an idiot. She passed because of her singular ability to slough off the test. Her failure is NOT her inability to distinguish illusions, because she bettered everyone else at that. The test is one of priorities, not discerning reality, and that is why they were upset. Nynaeve's strength and accomplishments mean the only control they have on her is her loyalty to the Tower and prioritizing its agenda, and she has just proven that holds no weight for her against her personal concerns.
Because she's too dense to dissociate herself from a fake test and a real life test of her character.
Why don't you point out even ONE example of Moiraine realizing that her test is all fake and prove your absurd contention of the nature of those tests. YOURS is completely unsupported, but you have the temerity to claim I am the one seeing things that are not there?

And that's the benefit of the test, its cuts out all the idiots who can't just walk to a star without cracking up because there's a weave of Fire and Air showing their dead lover.
8}
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4317 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1190 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1670 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1358 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 578 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 553 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 463 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1391 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1254 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 515 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 965 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1208 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1485 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 512 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 464 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1136 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1429 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1255 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1021 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 974 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1192 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1121 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1125 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1207 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1155 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1133 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1049 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1173 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 814 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 522 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1230 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1076 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1067 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1037 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1068 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1193 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1119 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 659 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 534 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1152 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 848 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1134 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1085 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1062 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1173 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1103 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1136 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 598 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1033 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1349 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1368 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1075 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1155 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 975 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1626 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1101 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1071 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 879 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1125 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1064 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1112 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 464 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1094 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1122 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 868 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1031 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1138 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1053 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 510 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1040 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 468 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1126 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1194 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1057 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1118 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1175 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 499 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1087 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1281 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 1064 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1200 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1039 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1110 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1030 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 1034 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1127 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1438 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1154 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 1074 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1132 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 1004 Views
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