PoD: The Breaking Storm - Edit 1
Before modification by Shannow at 09/12/2010 08:19:54 PM
Wow, is this a broken CD or what?
It is important to note that when Elayne decided to pose as one of the Forsaken she took her woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal and drew on as much of the Power as she deemed safe.
This is important evidence showing that Elayne considers the distance between herself and the Forsaken to be considerable (in raw strength at least). With her disguise she didn't think she could impersonate a Forsaken unless was filled with a lot of saidar. People might say that we all know that she's not Forsaken strength, but the important evidence is that she drew on as much saidar as she could. This, to me, says that she considers Forsaken strength to be much higher than her own.
Elayne knows how strong Moghedien is. I'm not saying that's what she aimed for. But I do think she aimed for Nynaeve level, and this hints once again that the difference between Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha and Nynaeve/Forsaken is considerable.
Thanks to Aviendha, we have a VERY good indication of the strength of this angreal. Aviendha is basically equal to Elayne in strength. In any case, the fact that the angreal almost doubles her strength is established. That means it would do the same for Elayne.
Since Elayne maxed out the angreal - according to her own description - it would seem that Elayne was close to double her normal strength when she disguised herself as one of the Forsaken.
Since it fits VERY well with the evidence that Lanfear is approximately double Elayne and Aviendha's strength, the angreal would put her somewhere between Nynaeve and Lanfear's strength level. Probably equal to Cyndane, most likely.
Lanfear = 100
Cyndane = 90
Graendal = 85
Nynaeve, Semirhage = 80
Moghedien = 65
Elayne = 50
That's pretty much what the evidence tells us. This scene merely confirms it.
The quote is as follows (emphasis mine):
The Path of Daggers
Unweaveing
Stripping away the decayed cloth revealed a small amber brooch in the shape of a turtle. It looked like amber, anyway, and it might been amber once, but when she opened herself to the Source through it, saidar rushed into her, a torrent compared to what she could draw safely on her own. Not a strong angreal, but far better than nothing. With it, she could handle twice as much of the Power as Nynaeve,
the turtle, which is stronger than the woman, makes Elayne twice as strong as Nynaeve! And we're talking raw strength with these comparisons so your numbers are completely out of whack. it's more like this IMO
Lanfear = 100
Cyndane/Alivia = 98
Graendal/Sharina = 96
Nynaeve, Semirhage = 94
Mesaana = 92
Moghedien = 90
Elayne = 75
Which squares with a Egwene saying should could face and defeat Mesaana, Elayne using a minor angreal to less than it's full potential and being able to appear as strong as a Forsaken and the turtle making Elayne 2.5x her natural strength and still being considered weak.
It also allows for the AS like Daigian to be 1/3 Siuan and Elayne to be almost 2x Siuan ... if Siuan is a 40, that makes Daigian around a 13-15 and makes Elayne/Egwene just shy of 2x her strength ... which we know is true from the Amys + Melaine not as strong as Egwene quote.
There are three angreal that the wondergirls use.
The woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal allows Avienha to almost double her strength. THAT's the one Elayne used in ToM.
I'm well aware that the turtle allows Elayne to channel twice as much as Nynaeve, which I've already quoted in my response to Myrdhyn above.
It fits perfectly.
The woman-wrapped-in-hair almost doubles Aviendha's strength. It is the one that would make Elayne approximately equal to Cyndane in strength.
The turtle probably triples it, meaning that if Nynaeve is half again as strong as Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene - which is where I put her - then tripling Elayne's strength would make her twice as strong as Nynaeve.
The bracelet with finger chains probably quadruples strength, or even more. That's the one Alivia used at the Cleansing.
I'm afraid you're using the wrong angreal to try and disprove this point.
Elayne gives the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal to Aviendha, when they are about to use the Bowl of Winds.
"Aviendha, you know how it feels when you hold as much of saidar as you can? Think of holding almost twice as much. Really think of it. I want you to use it, please."