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and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM

Wow, is this a broken CD or what? :D

It is important to note that when Elayne decided to pose as one of the Forsaken she took her woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal and drew on as much of the Power as she deemed safe.

This is important evidence showing that Elayne considers the distance between herself and the Forsaken to be considerable (in raw strength at least). With her disguise she didn't think she could impersonate a Forsaken unless was filled with a lot of saidar. People might say that we all know that she's not Forsaken strength, but the important evidence is that she drew on as much saidar as she could. This, to me, says that she considers Forsaken strength to be much higher than her own.

Elayne knows how strong Moghedien is. I'm not saying that's what she aimed for. But I do think she aimed for Nynaeve level, and this hints once again that the difference between Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha and Nynaeve/Forsaken is considerable.


She drew fairly lightly on the Angreal actually. Note that she wasn't holding enough Power to face 3 AS at once even holding the (very weak) Angreal. She Wove shields individually for each woman and tied them off rather than weaving 3 and shielding them all at once... something she should have been able to do if she was bursting at the seams with a stronger angreal.

And we know that the Angreal is very weak ... was the weakest of the 3 found in the stash ... Nynaeve's was just strong enough to make Elayne 2x stronger than Nynaeve, the turtle was weaker, let's say 1.5x stronger than Nynaeve ... it's possible the woman angreal could only give Elayne a total potential just above Nynaeve if she drew to it's fullest, which she clearly did not.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3204 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1521 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1374 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 746 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1287 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1515 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1316 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1280 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1324 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1215 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1322 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 822 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1082 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1395 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1310 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1246 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 801 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1280 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1198 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1308 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1111 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1221 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1207 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1234 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1204 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1107 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1356 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1381 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1244 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1220 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1030 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1093 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1041 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1189 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1197 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1191 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1135 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1161 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1269 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1294 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1203 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1438 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1235 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1238 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1047 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1129 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1138 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1229 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1181 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1134 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1145 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1207 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1116 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1095 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1164 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1204 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1180 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1202 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1066 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1187 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 992 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1275 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1224 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1190 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 591 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1214 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1314 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1247 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 953 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1064 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1143 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1194 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1126 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 998 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1164 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 948 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1182 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1259 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1138 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1164 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1154 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1340 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1275 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1036 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1104 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 968 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1054 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1226 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1181 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1225 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1111 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1167 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1173 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1194 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1113 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 786 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1169 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1090 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 985 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1190 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1040 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1064 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1088 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1182 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1117 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1185 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1083 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1060 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1137 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1152 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1089 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1158 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1095 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1105 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 970 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 971 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1000 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1202 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 1041 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2550 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1140 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1263 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1044 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1154 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1181 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1142 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1069 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1045 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1282 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1174 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1200 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1194 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1208 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1341 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1049 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1034 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1139 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1168 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1125 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1139 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1194 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1092 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1155 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1190 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 845 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1133 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1137 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1053 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1104 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1243 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1206 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1089 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 685 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1093 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1096 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1107 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1123 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1154 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1142 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1196 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 747 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1071 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1133 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1223 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 1025 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1179 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1207 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1090 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1198 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 1040 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1185 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1340 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1200 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1303 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1108 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 766 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1057 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1079 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1218 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1073 Views
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