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Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM

No, seriously, I really thought this was a joke. So I was preparing for some archnemesising.

...

Awkward :tinfoilhat:.


Yeah, I thought you came on a bit strong. Either you were joking, or you'd had the worst day in your life and needed to rant :P

You need look no further than the Seanchan attack on the White Tower to see that the test does not do what you think it does. I needn't remind you that the Captain-General of the Green Ajah - who passed the test - was flailing around like a headless chicken. The most competent woman there was Egwene, and she hasn't passed the test.


That is true, but at the same time a woman like the Captain-General probably hasn't seen serious conflict since her test. There's only been a lot of channeling action in the past three years.

And what greater goal is there in ignoring your responsibilities or human suffering in order to obey the voices in your head?


I think there can be greater goals under certain circumstances. For instance, if Nynaeve's task was to collapse a pass that was the only entrance for a legion of Shadowspawn, then it would be indeed wrong for her to stop and help these children.

Again, this notion fails because of the whole memory erasing. A more accurate analogy would be, say, being the only one capable of saving the city if you arrive on the other side of town within the next five minutes. But a voice in your head keeps saying "don't pass the speed limit, come to a complete stop at that corner, be steadfast." The tests do the opposite of what you claim. It claims women who are willing to ignore the greater goal to fulfill their selfish ambitions.


IMO the test is about throwing the worst distractions at you while you're told to complete a set number of weaves. It's not a judge of character or decision making, but rather your ability to ignore environmental distractions. I think its a pure channeling test. That's why Elaida beat and distracted Moiraine and Siuan before their test... it's the same thing.

Need I remind you in one of Egwene's Acceptance tests, she was given the choice between keeping the Dragon Reborn from being turned to the Shadow, or jumping through the phantom arches. So what is this greater goal that warrants giving the saviour of the world to Shai'tan?


But that's the Accepted Test, which tests whether a person wants to be Aes Sedai more than anything in the world. It's mere coincidence that Rand is the saviour of the world in that test... it's more about Rand being special to Egwene and his emotional effect on her that the ter'angreal exploited.
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4428 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1277 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1761 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1436 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 614 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 587 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 493 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1465 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1330 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 549 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 1045 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1290 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1564 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 545 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 488 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1210 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1493 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1325 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1102 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 1048 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1272 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1197 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1209 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1297 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1228 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1218 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1122 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1250 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 852 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 555 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1310 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1153 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1139 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1111 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1138 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1282 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1198 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 691 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 563 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1239 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 925 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1207 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1148 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1101 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1260 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1199 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1211 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 630 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1105 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1456 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1440 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1145 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1226 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 1046 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1711 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1186 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1163 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 972 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1201 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1140 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1214 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 494 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1173 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1199 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 943 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1078 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1210 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1132 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 546 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1111 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 498 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1193 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1275 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1129 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1194 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1265 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 532 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1163 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1360 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 1139 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1290 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1107 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1186 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1091 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 1119 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1207 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1513 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1210 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 1162 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1205 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 1083 Views
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