I must say as a start that I just registered on the forum, but I have been following the WOT-forum on RAFO and wotmania for about five years. To feed my Wheel of Time addiction, so to speak. I decided to register as a user because there is a slight annoyance with something about Elayne's ascent to the Cairhienin throne that I haven't seen anyone comment. But that will be my next post. Now I will write a little about my sense of the WOT-series, to give other debaters and haters a chance to judge my opinions in this matter colored and prejudiced by our common and conflicting views on the series, even if I am not a regular contributor here. So this post is only of interest to you if you place any importance in such things and/or is seriously bored. Or desperate for a debate on some issues that you could pull out of these ramblings and make me answer to. Anyways:
To get some sense of what kind of WOT-fan I am, you might say I am taking my masters degree in literature at the moment, and have never been very impressed by the literary standard of the books. Jordan was a very good storyteller, and had the rythm and flow in his writing to pull it off, but no more than that. His many lingual stumbles were offset by his steel control of the world he built and his vast storytelling talent, and his very good sense of dramatics, build-up (though often just slightly :-p long) and climatic events. I haven't read any Sanderson except what he's contributed in WOT, and it's acceptable to my addiction, but generally slightly worse than Jordan. The problem isn't really that his character-interpretations are a bit off, the problem is his inability to pull off the dramatic potential in the story-arc. I agree with those that point out that the overall dramatic arc in the first two-thirds of the final split volume, was ruined by the split as it was made. It should have been one book of "darkness and despair" that ended in the climatic change atop Dragonmount (or even just before, but that would have made it a pure build-up-book, which is unfortunate as a stand-alone story).
Among the young female characters I like Nynaeve and Faile, and find Egwene's storyline the most interesting to read; however sudden and unbelievable her growth and rise to power has been, she has been honorable and interesting throughout it. However I like the "old hags" best: Sorelea, Cadsuane and Lini, most of all. I do not like Moiraine, she is just like a parody of the all-knowing mentor-magician-helper-character in generic fantasy, although she did grow just slightly after tDR until her falling through the doorway. The series would have been much more interesting if someone like a mix of Cadsuane and Lini with barely the strength to become Aes Sedai and a much less capable warder came to the two rivers in the beginning, but, well, well.
I also despise Elayne. I cannot understand how Cannoli and his gang can think Egwene annoying and Elayne okay. I can understand her from a literary point of view, if she was used as pure comic relief as the spoiled noblegirl brat who despite her distaste for it had to mingle among the trash for a while, and unexpectedly found some of them to be rather nice, if unpolished. Hello! Carried on her four-poster bed to a inspection atop a tall tower! Thinking of Mat as a unruly subject and "training" him to be a more loyal and "good" subject while her mind should have been on much more important things and she definitely should have stepped out of her noblewoman role (I usually have little or no sympathy for him, but compared to Elayne he is a dream come true). Her claim for the Cairhienin throne, without even considering that Galad at least as her older brother Damodred in a nation that is after all not biased against male monarchs, or at least a handful of cairhienin nobility would be better suited for it (her ascent to the Andoran throne was at least lawfully natural in a feudal society, even if she was one of the least qualified for the job; Dyelin seems like she would be a better queen even than Morgase, who seem like a rather good queen from the tidbits we have gotten of her reign). And countless other occations! I remember reading (I think it was Cannoli) a comparison between the girlfriends of Rand, where Min came out short and Elayne was supposedly on top. Min is studying intensely, gathering knowledge that the world needs and competance in general scholarly activity. She is well on her way to becoming important in her own volition, not as something she inherited. Elayne is a spoiled brat that has just risen to her current position because she is selfish, power-hungry and inherited a title. She has gotten everything on a silver platter, and barely became queen despite this because she failed to convince anyone older than 16, excepting Dyelin (the reasoning behind which seems to be her desire to avoid civil war), that she was competent to take the throne.
Among the men I like, and have always liked, Perrin the most, and Mat the least. I seemingly agree with Sanderson that Mat's forté is his -- until tGS -- sadly diminishing function as comic-relief. Otherwise he's just -- like Rand -- hopelessly misogynistic and demeaning to women in a world where women is supposed to have a higher status than men in many ways. And he is childish without being funny the rest of the time. Rand, in addition to this trait he shares with Mat, is of course the best built male character, and his path has been the central arc of the story-telling at it's best, and is thus -- naturally -- one of my favorites. I particularly liked his slow devolution into "Dark Rand", but I find it silly with him having three girlfriends and it being portrayed as such a natural and good thing. People, including the women he chose, would definitely think this a trait of self-aggrandizement and arrogance, and demeaning, spoiled and power-hungry to boot. Among the other male characters I find them mostly to be a bit too perfect to their "roles", particularly Thom. Gawyn is really shallow and annoying. And Lan -- though his emotionally charged scenes are really good -- is just a too perfect in many things, while stubbornly stupid in other things, in my opinion. Gareth Bryne is actually a bit respectable, and I liked Rodel Ituralde. Otherwise I find that Jordan seems to understand women better than men, in the sense that there are lots of different women, but men are mostly a parody of The Man. I am a man myself, by the way, and I find the males in WOT mostly an insult to my gender. A somewhat deserved insult, but none the less. My theory is that it is due to Jordan himself being The Man in reality, and found it difficult to portray more diverse men. Or that he just doesn't find room for them in a series with an understandably combative theme.
I don't have a favorite book in the series. Like many I didn't like 7-8-9 as much as the others, but the addict in me was still glad, and I sometimes reread them in secret :-p. Among the others, I don't see any reason to rate them, they all had strengths and weaknesses, and as I've said, I've never been very impressed by the literary standard of the books as such.
That was enough rambling for today. Please note the incredibly small post above this that was the actual reason I became a member of this board, finally. I will of course debate any subject that any other addict feels a need to respond to in my ramblings. Also, if you find something in this post particularly arrogant, it was not meant that way, it is just my poor human skills coming to fruitation. And before anyone responds to this perceived arrogance and reacts to some ridiculous spelling mistake I've made, you should know my first language is not English. There. That should be all.
To get some sense of what kind of WOT-fan I am, you might say I am taking my masters degree in literature at the moment, and have never been very impressed by the literary standard of the books. Jordan was a very good storyteller, and had the rythm and flow in his writing to pull it off, but no more than that. His many lingual stumbles were offset by his steel control of the world he built and his vast storytelling talent, and his very good sense of dramatics, build-up (though often just slightly :-p long) and climatic events. I haven't read any Sanderson except what he's contributed in WOT, and it's acceptable to my addiction, but generally slightly worse than Jordan. The problem isn't really that his character-interpretations are a bit off, the problem is his inability to pull off the dramatic potential in the story-arc. I agree with those that point out that the overall dramatic arc in the first two-thirds of the final split volume, was ruined by the split as it was made. It should have been one book of "darkness and despair" that ended in the climatic change atop Dragonmount (or even just before, but that would have made it a pure build-up-book, which is unfortunate as a stand-alone story).
Among the young female characters I like Nynaeve and Faile, and find Egwene's storyline the most interesting to read; however sudden and unbelievable her growth and rise to power has been, she has been honorable and interesting throughout it. However I like the "old hags" best: Sorelea, Cadsuane and Lini, most of all. I do not like Moiraine, she is just like a parody of the all-knowing mentor-magician-helper-character in generic fantasy, although she did grow just slightly after tDR until her falling through the doorway. The series would have been much more interesting if someone like a mix of Cadsuane and Lini with barely the strength to become Aes Sedai and a much less capable warder came to the two rivers in the beginning, but, well, well.
I also despise Elayne. I cannot understand how Cannoli and his gang can think Egwene annoying and Elayne okay. I can understand her from a literary point of view, if she was used as pure comic relief as the spoiled noblegirl brat who despite her distaste for it had to mingle among the trash for a while, and unexpectedly found some of them to be rather nice, if unpolished. Hello! Carried on her four-poster bed to a inspection atop a tall tower! Thinking of Mat as a unruly subject and "training" him to be a more loyal and "good" subject while her mind should have been on much more important things and she definitely should have stepped out of her noblewoman role (I usually have little or no sympathy for him, but compared to Elayne he is a dream come true). Her claim for the Cairhienin throne, without even considering that Galad at least as her older brother Damodred in a nation that is after all not biased against male monarchs, or at least a handful of cairhienin nobility would be better suited for it (her ascent to the Andoran throne was at least lawfully natural in a feudal society, even if she was one of the least qualified for the job; Dyelin seems like she would be a better queen even than Morgase, who seem like a rather good queen from the tidbits we have gotten of her reign). And countless other occations! I remember reading (I think it was Cannoli) a comparison between the girlfriends of Rand, where Min came out short and Elayne was supposedly on top. Min is studying intensely, gathering knowledge that the world needs and competance in general scholarly activity. She is well on her way to becoming important in her own volition, not as something she inherited. Elayne is a spoiled brat that has just risen to her current position because she is selfish, power-hungry and inherited a title. She has gotten everything on a silver platter, and barely became queen despite this because she failed to convince anyone older than 16, excepting Dyelin (the reasoning behind which seems to be her desire to avoid civil war), that she was competent to take the throne.
Among the men I like, and have always liked, Perrin the most, and Mat the least. I seemingly agree with Sanderson that Mat's forté is his -- until tGS -- sadly diminishing function as comic-relief. Otherwise he's just -- like Rand -- hopelessly misogynistic and demeaning to women in a world where women is supposed to have a higher status than men in many ways. And he is childish without being funny the rest of the time. Rand, in addition to this trait he shares with Mat, is of course the best built male character, and his path has been the central arc of the story-telling at it's best, and is thus -- naturally -- one of my favorites. I particularly liked his slow devolution into "Dark Rand", but I find it silly with him having three girlfriends and it being portrayed as such a natural and good thing. People, including the women he chose, would definitely think this a trait of self-aggrandizement and arrogance, and demeaning, spoiled and power-hungry to boot. Among the other male characters I find them mostly to be a bit too perfect to their "roles", particularly Thom. Gawyn is really shallow and annoying. And Lan -- though his emotionally charged scenes are really good -- is just a too perfect in many things, while stubbornly stupid in other things, in my opinion. Gareth Bryne is actually a bit respectable, and I liked Rodel Ituralde. Otherwise I find that Jordan seems to understand women better than men, in the sense that there are lots of different women, but men are mostly a parody of The Man. I am a man myself, by the way, and I find the males in WOT mostly an insult to my gender. A somewhat deserved insult, but none the less. My theory is that it is due to Jordan himself being The Man in reality, and found it difficult to portray more diverse men. Or that he just doesn't find room for them in a series with an understandably combative theme.
I don't have a favorite book in the series. Like many I didn't like 7-8-9 as much as the others, but the addict in me was still glad, and I sometimes reread them in secret :-p. Among the others, I don't see any reason to rate them, they all had strengths and weaknesses, and as I've said, I've never been very impressed by the literary standard of the books as such.
That was enough rambling for today. Please note the incredibly small post above this that was the actual reason I became a member of this board, finally. I will of course debate any subject that any other addict feels a need to respond to in my ramblings. Also, if you find something in this post particularly arrogant, it was not meant that way, it is just my poor human skills coming to fruitation. And before anyone responds to this perceived arrogance and reacts to some ridiculous spelling mistake I've made, you should know my first language is not English. There. That should be all.
Serious ramblings about WOT
09/12/2010 04:10:05 AM
- 2010 Views
Re: Serious ramblings about WOT
09/12/2010 04:26:52 AM
- 1107 Views
Re: Serious ramblings about WOT
09/12/2010 04:44:47 AM
- 1088 Views
Re: Serious ramblings about WOT
09/12/2010 05:15:12 AM
- 1013 Views
Very interesting.
09/12/2010 05:50:23 AM
- 1138 Views
Oddly enough, I'd say that the WOMEN all seem to be cut from the same cloth
09/12/2010 03:10:43 PM
- 908 Views
Oh, and a note on Sanderson: I think his WoT stuff isn't as good as his original works
09/12/2010 03:34:27 PM
- 931 Views
Re: Oh, and a note on Sanderson: I think his WoT stuff isn't as good as his original works
09/12/2010 03:47:37 PM
- 853 Views
Hm... I'm not sure if "simpler" is the right word for Sanderson's magic systems
09/12/2010 04:40:30 PM
- 830 Views