not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM
Take for instance the Void when rand is fighting with a sword. He is entirely calm, despite the fact someone is trying to skewer him (I count someone trying to kill you as a stressful situation). However he is a flood movement.
If someone is clearly showing panic, like running around like a kicked chicken, then yes, that belies a lack of calm in the mind. But going "jee, I'm going to RUN to that person bleeding profusely on the floor across the room instead of WALK" is not being MORE calm. The assumption that to be calm of body means you are not being calm in mind, in any scenario, gives no credit to the fact that, sometimes, speed is precisely what is needed! Some stressful scenarios REQUIRE action, and quickly! It's not like Nynaeve saw a chicken get its head cut off for dinner and started running around the room frantically trying to heal it. She acted in total accordance to the scenarios presented to her.
Calm is not a state of body in this test, calm is being MEASURED as a state of body in this test, and a state of body that doesn't even mean the individual is calm!! Walking doesn't mean your calm. Walking means your emotions are in check or you're shell shocked. You can be walking and totally unable to channel due to the mental stress you are under. Not to say that if you're walking, you're plainly NOT calming. Only that walking does not mean someone IS calm.
It's an inaccurate parameter for a misleading measurement of calmn. If they are calm enough to channel the weaves correctly, then they are calm enough to be effective.
Honestly, demanding anything else is damned hypocritical! For such a "Serene/calm" group of people, they sure are spastics!! Last thing I want is a physically calm surgeon if my carotid blows!! I want a mentally calm but physically quick and effective surgeon.
As you pointed out in Nynaeve's case, she did not panic, she took initiative. Well sometimes that requires a speed faster than a walk!! That doesn't mean you're panicking about something!
EDIT: I am assuming your definition of "Calm of body" includes things like running, rapid movement, etc... because that is what the Aes Sedai are using. If, however, you mean that someone who is not calm of body is jerky, erratic, uncontrolled, etc...etc... in their movements, then I agree with you. That still means their test is stupid though
If someone is clearly showing panic, like running around like a kicked chicken, then yes, that belies a lack of calm in the mind. But going "jee, I'm going to RUN to that person bleeding profusely on the floor across the room instead of WALK" is not being MORE calm. The assumption that to be calm of body means you are not being calm in mind, in any scenario, gives no credit to the fact that, sometimes, speed is precisely what is needed! Some stressful scenarios REQUIRE action, and quickly! It's not like Nynaeve saw a chicken get its head cut off for dinner and started running around the room frantically trying to heal it. She acted in total accordance to the scenarios presented to her.
Calm is not a state of body in this test, calm is being MEASURED as a state of body in this test, and a state of body that doesn't even mean the individual is calm!! Walking doesn't mean your calm. Walking means your emotions are in check or you're shell shocked. You can be walking and totally unable to channel due to the mental stress you are under. Not to say that if you're walking, you're plainly NOT calming. Only that walking does not mean someone IS calm.
It's an inaccurate parameter for a misleading measurement of calmn. If they are calm enough to channel the weaves correctly, then they are calm enough to be effective.
Honestly, demanding anything else is damned hypocritical! For such a "Serene/calm" group of people, they sure are spastics!! Last thing I want is a physically calm surgeon if my carotid blows!! I want a mentally calm but physically quick and effective surgeon.
As you pointed out in Nynaeve's case, she did not panic, she took initiative. Well sometimes that requires a speed faster than a walk!! That doesn't mean you're panicking about something!
EDIT: I am assuming your definition of "Calm of body" includes things like running, rapid movement, etc... because that is what the Aes Sedai are using. If, however, you mean that someone who is not calm of body is jerky, erratic, uncontrolled, etc...etc... in their movements, then I agree with you. That still means their test is stupid though
You can certainly be calm while physically exerting yourself, even under stressful situations. I'm not arguing that.
It's the image that's the problem. A woman running from place to place is not seen as being "in control" of the situation. I believe part of what they are looking for is how other non-AS people in the situation would view the AS. The theory being a woman who appears to be in no hurry and is calming walking down a hallway is going to control the situation easier than a woman screaming and running around. The people around these women would behave differently.
Woman A (the "calm one"
is more likely to have the people around her calm and feeling as though she has the situation well in hand ... easily in fact. Inspiring confidence in the ASWoman B (running/yelling at people) may complete the job and get people to do what they need to do, but it looks harder for her to do it. And could potentially make it look like an AS could lose control of the situation.
This all wraps back into the "AS as a separate flesh" mentality. They need to project an aura of invincibility as part of that.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai
- 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM
4316 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter
- 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM
1670 Views
I second this
- 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM
1358 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM*
- 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM
578 Views
*NM*
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO
- 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM
1485 Views
nice post
- 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM
1255 Views
Isn't it implied
- 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM
1020 Views
no they were students together
- 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM
974 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews
- 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM
1192 Views
Where on earth did you get that from?
- 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM
1121 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from?
- 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM
1125 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from?
- 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM
1206 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time
- 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM
1154 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time
- 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM
1133 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill
- 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM
1049 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well
- 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM
1173 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM
814 Views
Re: nice post
- 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM
1230 Views
On the matter of strength
- 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM
1076 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative
- 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM
1036 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM*
- 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM
659 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM*
- 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM
532 Views
They're not really stupid...
- 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM
1152 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across
- 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM
848 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm.
- 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM
1134 Views
Bah...
- 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM
1173 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM
1135 Views
You are not only wrong in your call,
- 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM
1349 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call,
- 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM
1367 Views
if that is the purpose of the test
- 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM
1074 Views
minor disagreement
- 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM
1154 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body
- 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM
974 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though
- 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM
1626 Views
that's retarded, imo
- 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM
1101 Views
Oh it's totally stupid!
- 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM
1124 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it
- 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM
1064 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then
- 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM
1112 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then.
- 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM
1122 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that
- 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM
868 Views
Yeah, but how does that work?
- 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM
1031 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them.
- 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM
1137 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work.
- 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM
1053 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM*
- 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM
509 Views
Another headless chicken example.
- 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM
1040 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM*
- 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM
467 Views
*NM*
- 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM
467 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then.
- 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM
1126 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right"
- 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM
1174 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right"
- 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM
1086 Views
That's not the dilema
- 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM
1280 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong.
- 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM
1063 Views
That's not what it's really about
- 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM
1038 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
- 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM
1034 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
- 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM
1127 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
- 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM
1438 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
- 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM
1154 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong.
- 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM
1131 Views