Nynaeve should not have been made to swear the Oaths
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 07/12/2010 03:12:00 PM
On the surface this might seem obviously wrong. Egwene's the Amyrlin, enforcing the rules of the Tower is her jurisdiction, the Oaths and sisterhood fall roughly into that category, QED. But then there is one of the few issues on which she has been right - the inviolability of the status of an Aes Sedai. Elaida was absolutely wrong to decree Shemerin stripped of the stole. The status of an Aes Sedai once conferred is a general acceptance by the White Tower, and NOT a gift to be handed out or taken away by the Amyrlin Seat, even if she has final approval over the granting of that status. As an issue of the Tower, it can, or should, only be issued or revoked by the law of the Tower, and not any particular individual's whim.
The only problem with that position, as related to Nynaeve, is that ship has sailed. Nynaeve is already Aes Sedai. That was not made conditional upon her passing a test or taking the Oaths, it was simply stated and asserted and, with the Amyrlin's full support, was held to be every bit as valid and equal as any other sisters' status. Nynaeve was made a full Aes Sedai, absolutely and unconditionally, and retroactively attaching conditions to her keeping the shawl and title is absolutely no different than Elaida revoking the shawl from Shemerin or demanding the sisters swear an additional oath.
Some might claim that the particular nature of the Oaths is an issue, but that was not the problem with Elaida proposing a fourth oath. It does not matter what that extra oath is, and an oath to serve the Amyrlin Seat is no more immoral, wrong or absurd or even contrary to any principle than the first three. The wrongness with what Elaida proposed was of a piece with her assumed right to remove sisters - Aes Sedai ARE, and Elaida, or any other woman, has no right to go around attaching conditions to retaining that status. Which is also why Elayne was wrong to confiscate the great serpent rings from the Black sisters she caught. What Elayne was doing was an act of denial - she was trying to remove their claim of association with the Tower and with Aes Sedai. While her motivation was probably more horror and disgust at them, than any attempt to cover the Tower's ass, she was still doing the wrong thing, and something on the order of vigilantism - the cops chase vigilantes not to protect criminals but to enforce the law even-handedly. Elayne's act is as wrong as the perfectly natural impulse to slap around a handcuffed child molester.
The problem with the scenario as far as Nynaeve went was the presmuption of her inferiority because she did not take the test, but there is no reason she should have been able to tell them where to shove their Oath Rod. She was already Aes Sedai. She only took the test to prove to everyone else that she could do exactly what they did. Unfortunately, Nynaeve has always cared too much about what other people think about her and thus allows the opinions and condescension of people she knows to be hidebound & inept fools to bulldoze her into going along with a violation of an important principle of the White Tower. And piss away one of the last best chances left to rid the Tower of the Three Oaths as well, but that is another issue.
The only problem with that position, as related to Nynaeve, is that ship has sailed. Nynaeve is already Aes Sedai. That was not made conditional upon her passing a test or taking the Oaths, it was simply stated and asserted and, with the Amyrlin's full support, was held to be every bit as valid and equal as any other sisters' status. Nynaeve was made a full Aes Sedai, absolutely and unconditionally, and retroactively attaching conditions to her keeping the shawl and title is absolutely no different than Elaida revoking the shawl from Shemerin or demanding the sisters swear an additional oath.
Some might claim that the particular nature of the Oaths is an issue, but that was not the problem with Elaida proposing a fourth oath. It does not matter what that extra oath is, and an oath to serve the Amyrlin Seat is no more immoral, wrong or absurd or even contrary to any principle than the first three. The wrongness with what Elaida proposed was of a piece with her assumed right to remove sisters - Aes Sedai ARE, and Elaida, or any other woman, has no right to go around attaching conditions to retaining that status. Which is also why Elayne was wrong to confiscate the great serpent rings from the Black sisters she caught. What Elayne was doing was an act of denial - she was trying to remove their claim of association with the Tower and with Aes Sedai. While her motivation was probably more horror and disgust at them, than any attempt to cover the Tower's ass, she was still doing the wrong thing, and something on the order of vigilantism - the cops chase vigilantes not to protect criminals but to enforce the law even-handedly. Elayne's act is as wrong as the perfectly natural impulse to slap around a handcuffed child molester.
The problem with the scenario as far as Nynaeve went was the presmuption of her inferiority because she did not take the test, but there is no reason she should have been able to tell them where to shove their Oath Rod. She was already Aes Sedai. She only took the test to prove to everyone else that she could do exactly what they did. Unfortunately, Nynaeve has always cared too much about what other people think about her and thus allows the opinions and condescension of people she knows to be hidebound & inept fools to bulldoze her into going along with a violation of an important principle of the White Tower. And piss away one of the last best chances left to rid the Tower of the Three Oaths as well, but that is another issue.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Nynaeve should not have been made to swear the Oaths
07/12/2010 03:12:00 PM
- 1777 Views
*shrugs* ... the oaths are lame and so full of holes the only value they bring is
07/12/2010 03:26:21 PM
- 771 Views
I wonder what would have happened if she refused and left the tower entirely.
07/12/2010 03:30:58 PM
- 764 Views
I doubt they would have stopped her ... but there was no real reason for her to refuse the
07/12/2010 03:34:20 PM
- 725 Views
no there wasn't a real reason for her to refuse. It'd still be interesting if she did *NM*
07/12/2010 03:37:45 PM
- 364 Views
would have made for an interesting spin on the plot
07/12/2010 05:37:31 PM
- 704 Views
How is she not a lead?
07/12/2010 06:25:45 PM
- 682 Views
She has never really had her own unique plot line
07/12/2010 06:34:40 PM
- 657 Views
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that
07/12/2010 07:46:08 PM
- 716 Views
Nothing to really argue here except perspective ... to each their own *NM*
07/12/2010 10:26:04 PM
- 355 Views
That would have been good - I think she was probably the only woman with such an opportunity
07/12/2010 10:59:50 PM
- 751 Views
Personally, I think it would have been a brillaint twist if Nyneave didn't become Aes Sedai *NM*
08/12/2010 12:02:05 AM
- 404 Views
Re: *shrugs* ... the oaths are lame and so full of holes the only value they bring is
07/12/2010 10:49:12 PM
- 745 Views
she shouldn't have, although I think they should trash the oaths in general
07/12/2010 03:29:21 PM
- 687 Views
Especially since Egwene herself didn't really think it necessary for herself to take the tests
07/12/2010 03:43:18 PM
- 728 Views
well it looks like such a coalition is part of the plan
07/12/2010 03:47:03 PM
- 713 Views
I meant one that would destroy the White Tower
07/12/2010 03:53:35 PM
- 775 Views
I agree with you. Hopefully Post LB there will be a new structure to the AS organization
07/12/2010 05:34:01 PM
- 636 Views
She was always going to have to swear the Oaths
07/12/2010 04:42:59 PM
- 691 Views
Brace yourselves, everybody...
08/12/2010 02:56:43 PM
- 631 Views
The only problem with that scenario was that Nynaeve had stuff to do, and could not as Accepted
09/12/2010 01:09:45 AM
- 746 Views
And what? To miss all the awesomeness she had before/during/after the test?
07/12/2010 06:27:23 PM
- 661 Views
I agree about the test, kind of. The Oaths was going too far.
07/12/2010 07:02:43 PM
- 817 Views
Re: I agree about the test, kind of. The Oaths was going too far.
16/12/2010 10:40:39 AM
- 555 Views
It's supposed to be a required part of being Aes Sedai.
08/12/2010 08:52:34 AM
- 626 Views
On the contrary, being Aes Sedai means she had to swear the Oaths.
14/12/2010 04:53:28 AM
- 615 Views
Re: On the contrary, being Aes Sedai means she had to swear the Oaths.
14/12/2010 11:53:43 AM
- 685 Views
Passing your scars on
14/12/2010 07:07:43 PM
- 542 Views
They believe Oaths necessary, thus an Aes Sedai refusing sets herself apart from and above the rest.
16/12/2010 02:26:45 PM
- 1088 Views
So?
15/12/2010 11:40:32 AM
- 708 Views
From the standpoint of actually changing Tower rules and traditions I agree with you.
16/12/2010 02:13:44 PM
- 1112 Views