Wikipedia isn't the best source of information and I knew referencing it would ultimately probably not help.
Let me go back to the fundamental premise on "suspension of disbelief" as that concept was discussed in every literature class I took in college. "Suspension of disbelief" is not the same as "belief". It is when someone ignores the elements that are implausible or impossible for the sake of the story. The person still believes or doesn't believe in what they believed and didn't believe in before starting the story, but chooses to ignore or at least not dwell on those points.
This is easily applied to many of the points that you mentioned:
1. The Superman point. A person who believes that super beings could exist does not need to suspend disbelief regarding that because there is no underlying disbelief to begin with. However, he may still need to suspend disbelief that no one can identify Superman as soon as he puts on regular clothes and a pair of glasses to become Clark Kent because it still seems implausible. Another person, who doesn't believe that Superman could exist, would have to suspend disbelief on both points. Once again, the viewer (or reader, if we're talking the comic books) must simply ignore, overlook or not dwell on the implausible elements.
2. The horror movie point. Obviously, someone who suspends their disbelief isn't going to shout out "look out behind you!" (though stupid people tend to make stupid comments like that in theatres regardless). They just don't bother dwelling on the implausibility of a vampire/werewolf/monster/zombie attack, or an undead serial killer, or whatever it is, in order to vicariously feel the thrill of the scare that ensues. Someone who believes in ghosts won't have as much to ignore in a movie about a haunting as someone who doesn't, but the person who doesn't believe in them isn't required to automatically "believe".
3. The fairy tale point. Once again, we ignore the implausibility of animals talking, of magic carpets and wands and elves and fairies, of magical secret places on the other side of wardrobes or rabbit-holes to enjoy the story. We don't believe these things can exist, but pretend that they can exist to recreate the sense of wonder and mystery that accompanied a lot of things when we were little.
In every single one of these examples, there are points when the implausible elements can be pushed to such a level that the viewer or reader finds the suspension of disbelief impossible. This is the hallmark of bad cinema or literature because it breaks the story flow. It's not that the person "stopped believing" in something fake that they had "started to believe", but that the viewer or reader's attention is drawn consciously to a point that is so absurd it cannot be ignored. Remember what watching Highlander 2 was like - "Okay, this is a load of bullshit. Now they're all aliens, and there CAN be more than one?" Remember Phantom Menace - "We can measure the Force because it's really about little bacteria in you, the best pilot in the Galaxy at the age of six".
Let me go back to the fundamental premise on "suspension of disbelief" as that concept was discussed in every literature class I took in college. "Suspension of disbelief" is not the same as "belief". It is when someone ignores the elements that are implausible or impossible for the sake of the story. The person still believes or doesn't believe in what they believed and didn't believe in before starting the story, but chooses to ignore or at least not dwell on those points.
This is easily applied to many of the points that you mentioned:
1. The Superman point. A person who believes that super beings could exist does not need to suspend disbelief regarding that because there is no underlying disbelief to begin with. However, he may still need to suspend disbelief that no one can identify Superman as soon as he puts on regular clothes and a pair of glasses to become Clark Kent because it still seems implausible. Another person, who doesn't believe that Superman could exist, would have to suspend disbelief on both points. Once again, the viewer (or reader, if we're talking the comic books) must simply ignore, overlook or not dwell on the implausible elements.
2. The horror movie point. Obviously, someone who suspends their disbelief isn't going to shout out "look out behind you!" (though stupid people tend to make stupid comments like that in theatres regardless). They just don't bother dwelling on the implausibility of a vampire/werewolf/monster/zombie attack, or an undead serial killer, or whatever it is, in order to vicariously feel the thrill of the scare that ensues. Someone who believes in ghosts won't have as much to ignore in a movie about a haunting as someone who doesn't, but the person who doesn't believe in them isn't required to automatically "believe".
3. The fairy tale point. Once again, we ignore the implausibility of animals talking, of magic carpets and wands and elves and fairies, of magical secret places on the other side of wardrobes or rabbit-holes to enjoy the story. We don't believe these things can exist, but pretend that they can exist to recreate the sense of wonder and mystery that accompanied a lot of things when we were little.
In every single one of these examples, there are points when the implausible elements can be pushed to such a level that the viewer or reader finds the suspension of disbelief impossible. This is the hallmark of bad cinema or literature because it breaks the story flow. It's not that the person "stopped believing" in something fake that they had "started to believe", but that the viewer or reader's attention is drawn consciously to a point that is so absurd it cannot be ignored. Remember what watching Highlander 2 was like - "Okay, this is a load of bullshit. Now they're all aliens, and there CAN be more than one?" Remember Phantom Menace - "We can measure the Force because it's really about little bacteria in you, the best pilot in the Galaxy at the age of six".
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
- 2702 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM
- 1368 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM
- 1281 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM
- 1266 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM
- 1286 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything
29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM
- 1242 Views
I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM
- 1104 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM
- 1109 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:43:46 PM
- 1284 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:49:23 PM
- 1229 Views
Indeed
28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM
- 1183 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM
- 1387 Views
Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM
- 1144 Views
And in the interest of fairness, SH should've been all up in Osangar's intimate business
29/11/2010 11:34:21 PM
- 1190 Views
Agreed. The series is formulaic and predictable, and even I expected a few more twists.
28/11/2010 07:47:10 PM
- 1256 Views
I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_-
29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM
- 1142 Views
Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM
- 1447 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM
- 1123 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM
- 1138 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes
29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM
- 1097 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself
29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM
- 1149 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed
30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM
- 1052 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves?
30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM
- 1175 Views
They did get another thing right
29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM
- 1146 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him.
29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM
- 1105 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome
29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM
- 1227 Views
I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though.
29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM
- 1125 Views
The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM
- 1252 Views
Re: The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 09:50:26 AM
- 1232 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace"
29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM
- 1242 Views
War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM
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Re: War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM
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I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT
30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM
- 1081 Views
I've always thought of this series (and fantasy in general) are a bit like Aesop's Fables
30/11/2010 10:44:09 PM
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Please tell me what drugs you're on
01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM
- 1189 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm
01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM
- 1101 Views
You are absolutely wrong.
02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM
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You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
- 1191 Views
No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit.
02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM
- 990 Views
No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
- 902 Views
It's really very simple.
04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM
- 1197 Views
mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange
05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM
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I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone.
06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM
- 1208 Views
No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend.
01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM
- 1014 Views
You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
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I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that
02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM
- 920 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF
02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM
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Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM
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Re: Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM
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No, the worst case scenario is that the entire tower becomes 13+13'd and fights for the Shadow
30/11/2010 04:03:07 AM
- 975 Views
Hopper's death... oh god...
01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM
- 1263 Views
while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM
- 1057 Views
Re: while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM
- 1162 Views
Hopper wasn't that important, either, though.
03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM
- 969 Views