Active Users:1211 Time:22/11/2024 08:32:25 PM
Re: That's far from "the most basic" thing and it is entirely excusable that they do not know it. DomA Send a noteboard - 03/12/2010 02:42:39 AM
How, exactly, would you expect them to discover this? Most incarnations of the same person aren't aware of who they were in a previous life, so the Wise Ones have no way of going "You know, X was killed in T'A'R', but we haven't had any record of them being respun in GENERATIONS!!"

Why does Perrin know?

The wolves told him. And the wolves seem to have a much stronger and integral link to T'A'R' than humans do. We can't even be sure that this applies to human souls as well. Probably the only human individuals aware of whether or not this occurs would be the Heroes of the Horn when they are not presently spun out. So the only character who is able to answer this question for us is Birgitte, and she may not know either.

If this was common knowledge and the Wise Ones just didn't know, it'd be a "most basic" thing. But they don't know and they have no real ability to find out, so it's far from a basic piece of knowledge.


We can't even be 100% sure the wolves got it right about themselves. They know when the soul of a wolf die in TAR, this wolf soul is never reborn as a wolf. They've not considered the possibility that to be reborn as a wolf, a soul needs to live an afterlife as a wolf in TAR. It could be that if a soul lost the connection to the wolves by dying in the afterlife, it isn't destroyed, but it goes back to the general "soul pool", to be reborn as something else. We don't know much about transpecies rebirth, but RJ indirectly implied it happens, when talking of where the Nym got their souls, or that the souls borrowed by Shadowspawn from the soul pool are tainted, and they cannot be reborn as anything else but Shadowspawn after.

It could even be that the soul of a wolf that die in TAR, when reborn as a human, becomes a wolfbrother, and that in turn Perrin and Elyas when they die will join the wolves in TAR (like Noam, who became Boundless) and be reborn as wolves next... until in some Age they get killed in TAR and their cycle of rebirths as wolves end.

The Pattern is a world without a beginning nor end. An ending is just a new beginning, in RJ's conception of things. It's fairly curious that something as "natural" as a wolf meeting death in TAR gets a real "a final end". It sounds like a big flaw in the working of the pattern that such a thing as a real final end might happen to any soul.
Reply to message
Egwene and the WIse Ones don't know the most basic thing about Teleranriod - 02/12/2010 10:43:16 PM 1958 Views
IIRC Nicola was killed by a Black Ajah Sister and Egwene had tried to save her. - 02/12/2010 10:52:01 PM 1159 Views
Yes, I meant allowing her near the battle in the first place - 03/12/2010 06:28:45 AM 763 Views
And who would enforce those rules? - 03/12/2010 12:42:33 PM 881 Views
Also, I'm not sure how you could expect the Wise Ones to know that. - 03/12/2010 02:51:43 PM 755 Views
How do you figure? - 02/12/2010 10:55:15 PM 962 Views
Re: How do you figure? - 02/12/2010 11:06:29 PM 1051 Views
may, being the operative word. - 02/12/2010 11:12:49 PM 875 Views
except for the part of the soul that stays in the sleeping body, like they've explained many times. *NM* - 02/12/2010 11:16:43 PM 420 Views
mmm fair point. maybe if you were there "too strongly"? - 02/12/2010 11:18:50 PM 879 Views
right. but i dont think 'too strongly' ever means completely. maybe in the flesh or something *NM* - 03/12/2010 01:24:38 AM 446 Views
This doesn't make a lot of sense - 03/12/2010 06:37:02 AM 817 Views
They also told Perrin that about... - 03/12/2010 12:55:57 AM 962 Views
yes, that is another confounding factor - 03/12/2010 09:14:35 AM 819 Views
Oh, I see. - 02/12/2010 11:45:37 PM 922 Views
Re: Oh, I see. - 03/12/2010 02:29:30 AM 929 Views
Re: Oh, I see. - 03/12/2010 02:45:59 AM 856 Views
He isn't a wolfbrother - 03/12/2010 05:43:06 AM 895 Views
Maybe he hadn't discovered it yet. - 03/12/2010 06:21:22 AM 798 Views
He'd be a shadowbrother-brother - 03/12/2010 06:51:59 AM 729 Views
You raise an interesting possibility - 03/12/2010 06:44:18 AM 993 Views
Wolfbrothers are going to be part of the next age. - 03/12/2010 07:05:30 AM 754 Views
I thought they were just a transitional thing - 03/12/2010 07:13:17 AM 840 Views
I doubt it, that Age is ours. - 03/12/2010 09:33:03 PM 754 Views
Uhm, TOTALLY. - 03/12/2010 10:00:01 PM 713 Views
GASP! *NM* - 04/12/2010 06:59:09 AM 493 Views
I know RJ said something - 04/12/2010 06:15:51 AM 729 Views
Re: I know RJ said something - 04/12/2010 07:05:50 AM 812 Views
So... - 04/12/2010 07:24:07 AM 836 Views
Re: So... - 04/12/2010 10:12:45 AM 794 Views
Of course... - 05/12/2010 08:21:05 PM 886 Views
If the first age is the Technological / Scientific Age - 06/12/2010 06:33:18 AM 862 Views
I don't see why they would have to be unique themes. - 06/12/2010 07:04:08 AM 793 Views
I don't even know why they're supposed to be mutually exclusive. *NM* - 06/12/2010 07:37:35 AM 417 Views
Re: I don't see why they would have to be unique themes. - 06/12/2010 08:14:15 AM 776 Views
uhm, duh, stonehedge. - 04/12/2010 07:11:44 PM 746 Views
That's far from "the most basic" thing and it is entirely excusable that they do not know it. - 02/12/2010 11:17:46 PM 924 Views
Re: That's far from "the most basic" thing and it is entirely excusable that they do not know it. - 03/12/2010 02:42:39 AM 872 Views
It could be extrapolated from the fact that it's souls that inhabit it - 03/12/2010 06:54:40 AM 801 Views
You're caving to bias from being outside the story with more information than any single character. - 03/12/2010 09:13:12 AM 819 Views
Don't forget the Heroes - 03/12/2010 09:34:43 AM 703 Views
I think that she meant that comment as more for the "hero" version - 03/12/2010 10:57:38 AM 759 Views
Maybe this should be a question for Sanderson? - 03/12/2010 11:43:54 AM 772 Views
that's only because you're stubbornly holding to yours, despite everyone indicating its errors *NM* - 03/12/2010 05:29:15 PM 489 Views
Obviously my tenacity indicates that I have a worthy point - 03/12/2010 07:06:18 PM 588 Views
Perrin doesn't count since his information is from Hopper - 03/12/2010 09:58:01 PM 788 Views
So it's my evidence against your non-evidence? - 04/12/2010 06:05:41 AM 848 Views
why are you assuming that all souls are the same? - 04/12/2010 07:18:10 PM 1058 Views
1. You're wrong. 2. Even if you're right, how would they know? - 03/12/2010 05:28:33 AM 1006 Views
Maybe, but I bet they can spell it. - 03/12/2010 05:43:28 AM 836 Views
Incidentally, wouldn't that mean it is safer to go to Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh? *NM* - 03/12/2010 09:35:21 PM 417 Views
I'm more inclined to believe that being killed in the flesh in TAR - 04/12/2010 07:35:15 PM 703 Views
Where does that reasoning begin? - 04/12/2010 07:53:42 PM 1269 Views
Perhaps it's more of a matter that the "usual route" may be altered? - 04/12/2010 10:20:51 PM 682 Views
But human souls don't go to Tel'aran'rhiod, from what we know. - 04/12/2010 11:19:53 PM 702 Views
maybe it does? - 05/12/2010 12:18:05 AM 1033 Views
So do we have any reason to believe this is the case? *NM* - 05/12/2010 02:48:48 AM 402 Views
I don't think so. It's not really something that's discussed - 05/12/2010 03:19:37 AM 564 Views
I'm pondering too - 05/12/2010 03:04:10 PM 862 Views
Not @ all - if humans regularly go to TAR after they die, we'd have seen it already. Heroes would - 04/12/2010 01:28:45 AM 880 Views
that would have been decidedly clever. *NM* - 04/12/2010 07:18:52 PM 360 Views

Reply to Message