No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
Hence why other readers disagree with some of its' arguments. Notice how that section starts by stating this is a theory, not a fact.
Anyway, further down:
"Criticism of the theory:
As in the examples of Superman's powers and Gary Larson's cartoon, it is unclear that suspension of disbelief correctly describes an audience's perception of art. If the theory were to be true, the individual events of suspension would appear to be highly selective. (It would appear that one chooses to suspend disbelief for the ability to fly, but not to suspend it for myopic co-workers.)
Aesthetic philosophers generally reject claims that suspension of disbelief accurately characterizes the relationship between people and "fictions." Kendall Walton notes that, if viewers were to truly suspend disbelief at a horror movie and accept its images as true, they would have a true-to-life set of reactions. For instance, audience members would cry out, "Look behind you!" to an endangered on-screen character or call the police when they witnessed an on-screen murder.[10] Tolkien, in his essay "On Fairy-Stories", offers the alternative paradigm of subcreation based on inner consistency of reality and secondary belief. Tolkien says that indeed the reader should in order for the narrative to work, chose to believe in the fiction he is reading - not willingly suspend his disbelief, but believe that the events are possible within the "secondary" world (the fictional world of the story). By focusing on how to create an internally consistent secondary world, the author becomes a sub-creator.
However, many of these criticisms simply fail to notice that Coleridge's original statement came in a restrictive clause. The formulation "...that willing suspension of disbelief for the moment which constitutes poetic faith," of necessity implies that there are different sorts of suspension of disbelief and specifies that poetic faith is one instance of a larger class. One need not choose to believe that a character in a horror film is a real person in order, for example, to choose to believe that the character is looking at the building seen in the following reverse-shot. More often than not, both beliefs would be equally false."
Which brings me back to my initial point; not everyone needs to "suspend their disbelief" and in terms of fantasy stories, its' often not necessary unless you take it seriously.
Personally, I think you are over-thinking this. When I watch a Disney movie, complete with song-and-dance numbers and magic, I'm not suspending anything. My imagination allows me to enjoy the story, characters and images because I approach it as a form of entertainment and artwork. They are obviously in a fantasy world so I don't see the need to reconcile how the real world works and what happens in a Disney movie - it's not that deep.
Anyway, further down:
"Criticism of the theory:
As in the examples of Superman's powers and Gary Larson's cartoon, it is unclear that suspension of disbelief correctly describes an audience's perception of art. If the theory were to be true, the individual events of suspension would appear to be highly selective. (It would appear that one chooses to suspend disbelief for the ability to fly, but not to suspend it for myopic co-workers.)
Aesthetic philosophers generally reject claims that suspension of disbelief accurately characterizes the relationship between people and "fictions." Kendall Walton notes that, if viewers were to truly suspend disbelief at a horror movie and accept its images as true, they would have a true-to-life set of reactions. For instance, audience members would cry out, "Look behind you!" to an endangered on-screen character or call the police when they witnessed an on-screen murder.[10] Tolkien, in his essay "On Fairy-Stories", offers the alternative paradigm of subcreation based on inner consistency of reality and secondary belief. Tolkien says that indeed the reader should in order for the narrative to work, chose to believe in the fiction he is reading - not willingly suspend his disbelief, but believe that the events are possible within the "secondary" world (the fictional world of the story). By focusing on how to create an internally consistent secondary world, the author becomes a sub-creator.
However, many of these criticisms simply fail to notice that Coleridge's original statement came in a restrictive clause. The formulation "...that willing suspension of disbelief for the moment which constitutes poetic faith," of necessity implies that there are different sorts of suspension of disbelief and specifies that poetic faith is one instance of a larger class. One need not choose to believe that a character in a horror film is a real person in order, for example, to choose to believe that the character is looking at the building seen in the following reverse-shot. More often than not, both beliefs would be equally false."
Which brings me back to my initial point; not everyone needs to "suspend their disbelief" and in terms of fantasy stories, its' often not necessary unless you take it seriously.
Personally, I think you are over-thinking this. When I watch a Disney movie, complete with song-and-dance numbers and magic, I'm not suspending anything. My imagination allows me to enjoy the story, characters and images because I approach it as a form of entertainment and artwork. They are obviously in a fantasy world so I don't see the need to reconcile how the real world works and what happens in a Disney movie - it's not that deep.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 02/12/2010 at 07:38:33 PM
Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
- 2632 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM
- 1306 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM
- 1215 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM
- 1200 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM
- 1215 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything
29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM
- 1175 Views
I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM
- 1059 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM
- 1062 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:43:46 PM
- 1242 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:49:23 PM
- 1163 Views
Indeed
28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM
- 1120 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM
- 1318 Views
Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM
- 1080 Views
And in the interest of fairness, SH should've been all up in Osangar's intimate business
29/11/2010 11:34:21 PM
- 1127 Views
Agreed. The series is formulaic and predictable, and even I expected a few more twists.
28/11/2010 07:47:10 PM
- 1193 Views
I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_-
29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM
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Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM
- 1341 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM
- 1071 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes
29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM
- 1034 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself
29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM
- 1085 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed
30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM
- 989 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves?
30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM
- 1107 Views
They did get another thing right
29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM
- 1085 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him.
29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM
- 1040 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome
29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM
- 1163 Views
I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though.
29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM
- 1033 Views
The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM
- 1185 Views
Re: The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 09:50:26 AM
- 1163 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace"
29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM
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War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM
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Re: War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM
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I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT
30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM
- 1012 Views
I've always thought of this series (and fantasy in general) are a bit like Aesop's Fables
30/11/2010 10:44:09 PM
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Please tell me what drugs you're on
01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM
- 1115 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm
01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM
- 1030 Views
You are absolutely wrong.
02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM
- 1003 Views
You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
- 1146 Views
No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit.
02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM
- 920 Views
No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
- 841 Views
It's really very simple.
04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM
- 1101 Views
mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange
05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM
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I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone.
06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM
- 1149 Views
No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend.
01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM
- 944 Views
You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
- 992 Views
I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that
02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM
- 851 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF
02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM
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Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM
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Re: Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM
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No, the worst case scenario is that the entire tower becomes 13+13'd and fights for the Shadow
30/11/2010 04:03:07 AM
- 912 Views
Hopper's death... oh god...
01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM
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while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM
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Re: while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM
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Hopper wasn't that important, either, though.
03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM
- 913 Views