You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
"Suspension of disbelief" is the ability to ignore the obviously false elements in any work of fiction in order to become invested emotionally in the work of fiction.
Hell, even wikipedia realizes that it is needed for "any storytelling".
Suspension of disbelief is required for ANY work of fiction. ANY WORK OF FICTION. LET ME REPEAT: ANY WORK OF FICTION.
Hell, even wikipedia realizes that it is needed for "any storytelling".
Suspension of disbelief is required for ANY work of fiction. ANY WORK OF FICTION. LET ME REPEAT: ANY WORK OF FICTION.
From Wikipedia: "Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula for justifying the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literature. It was put forth in English by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.
The phrase "suspension of disbelief" came to be used more loosely in the later 20th century, often used to imply that the onus was on the reader, rather than the writer, to achieve it. It might be used to refer to the willingness of the audience to overlook the limitations of a medium, so that these do not interfere with the acceptance of those premises. These fictional premises may also lend to the engagement of the mind and perhaps proposition of thoughts, ideas, art and theories."
Notice that the definition and the passage don't say it is needed for any storytelling - that is your understanding of it, not what the term actually means. Note there is a further explanation further down the page during a discussion about Superman that illustrates how some readers might need to suspend their disbelief for one element of a fictional story, while other readers would not have any problems with other fantastical elements - some readers accept that a superbeing would exist very easily, but need to suspend their disbelief that his identity as Clark Kent is sufficient to blend in with his co-workers.
Do you need to suspend your disbelief to read a fairy tale? You know it is not true; you are not expected to believe it is true.
That is the crucial element you are missing.
In order to need to "suspend your disbelief", you must actually be asked to believe in something you otherwise might not.
I very highly doubt that RJ intended for "The Wheel of Time" to be taken seriously and for it to contain elements you were supposed to believe in.
I would say your main issue with our arguments is that you don't understand that, just as the Wikipedia article indicated in the Superman example, not all readers need to suspend their disbelief to enjoy a fantasy story because they understand it to be fictional, while you may need to do so. I don't take this story seriously (anymore), so I can read a passage with characters whose motivations are nonsensical and not be bothered, whereas it seems that you demand them to follow a pattern of reasoning that is logical or at least understandable. My "belief" isn't really an issue here, because what this series triggers is my imagination, not my critical thinking (it's the theorizing that triggers that).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 02/12/2010 at 04:30:36 PM
Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM
- 1184 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM
- 1163 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM
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Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything
29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM
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I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM
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Re: I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:43:46 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:49:23 PM
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Indeed
28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM
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am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM
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Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM
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And in the interest of fairness, SH should've been all up in Osangar's intimate business
29/11/2010 11:34:21 PM
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Agreed. The series is formulaic and predictable, and even I expected a few more twists.
28/11/2010 07:47:10 PM
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I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_-
29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM
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Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM
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He disbelieves in the Heroes
29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM
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I think that's his mind deceiving itself
29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM
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I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed
30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM
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Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves?
30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM
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They did get another thing right
29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM
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Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him.
29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM
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It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome
29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM
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I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though.
29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM
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The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM
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Re: The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 09:50:26 AM
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It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace"
29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM
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War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM
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Re: War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM
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I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT
30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM
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I've always thought of this series (and fantasy in general) are a bit like Aesop's Fables
30/11/2010 10:44:09 PM
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Please tell me what drugs you're on
01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM
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It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm
01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM
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You are absolutely wrong.
02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM
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You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
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No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit.
02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM
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No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
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It's really very simple.
04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM
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mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange
05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM
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I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone.
06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM
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No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend.
01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM
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You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
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I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that
02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM
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I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF
02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM
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Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM
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Re: Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM
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No, the worst case scenario is that the entire tower becomes 13+13'd and fights for the Shadow
30/11/2010 04:03:07 AM
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Hopper's death... oh god...
01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM
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while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM
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Re: while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM
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Hopper wasn't that important, either, though.
03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM
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