You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
Tom Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
Let me regress into geekdom to make my point, to avoid mixing serious literature and WoT. Take the first (in terms of release dates) Star Wars trilogy. Everyone understood the characters' motivations, generally. Sure, the people were a bit simplistic, but Lucas was following the Campbell myth concept, which borrowed Jung's archetypes, etc. Regardless, we understood, mostly, WHY people acted as they did. It didn't matter that the whole thing had aliens and robots and spaceships and even (gasp) Ewoks because the main characters had motivations that made sense.
Then look at the "new" series. Anakin's role was abysmally played, first by the little kid and then by the young guy, and his motivations never made sense to people. As an example (in my mind, one of the worst explanation of motivations in cinema), it took him about 5 minutes to go from wanting to arrest Palpatine to deciding to be evil and start killing kids, with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPLANATION of how he could make that decision so quickly and easily. Sure, they gave him a reason, but it wasn't really properly executed. In other words, the movies were crap because people didn't believe Anakin, all the way from the first movie. And when that happened, they started looking at a LOT of other things that were subpar. Jar-Jar. A little boy flying a spaceship. The racial stereotypes. And so on.
It is absolutely necessary to suspend some disbelief at some level and in some way to enjoy anything speculative, or else you can never internalize it enough to care what happens.
Then look at the "new" series. Anakin's role was abysmally played, first by the little kid and then by the young guy, and his motivations never made sense to people. As an example (in my mind, one of the worst explanation of motivations in cinema), it took him about 5 minutes to go from wanting to arrest Palpatine to deciding to be evil and start killing kids, with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPLANATION of how he could make that decision so quickly and easily. Sure, they gave him a reason, but it wasn't really properly executed. In other words, the movies were crap because people didn't believe Anakin, all the way from the first movie. And when that happened, they started looking at a LOT of other things that were subpar. Jar-Jar. A little boy flying a spaceship. The racial stereotypes. And so on.
It is absolutely necessary to suspend some disbelief at some level and in some way to enjoy anything speculative, or else you can never internalize it enough to care what happens.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM
- 1277 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM
- 1183 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM
- 1162 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM
- 1181 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything
29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM
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I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM
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Re: I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:43:46 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:49:23 PM
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Indeed
28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM
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am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM
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Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM
- 1043 Views
And in the interest of fairness, SH should've been all up in Osangar's intimate business
29/11/2010 11:34:21 PM
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Agreed. The series is formulaic and predictable, and even I expected a few more twists.
28/11/2010 07:47:10 PM
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I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_-
29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM
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Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM
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He disbelieves in the Heroes
29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM
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I think that's his mind deceiving itself
29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM
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I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed
30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM
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Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves?
30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM
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They did get another thing right
29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM
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Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him.
29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM
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It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome
29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM
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I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though.
29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM
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The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM
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Re: The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 09:50:26 AM
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It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace"
29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM
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War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM
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Re: War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM
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I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT
30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM
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I've always thought of this series (and fantasy in general) are a bit like Aesop's Fables
30/11/2010 10:44:09 PM
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Please tell me what drugs you're on
01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM
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It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm
01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM
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You are absolutely wrong.
02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM
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You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
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No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit.
02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM
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No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
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It's really very simple.
04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM
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mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange
05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM
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I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone.
06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM
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No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend.
01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM
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You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
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I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that
02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM
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I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF
02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM
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Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM
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Re: Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM
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No, the worst case scenario is that the entire tower becomes 13+13'd and fights for the Shadow
30/11/2010 04:03:07 AM
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Hopper's death... oh god...
01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM
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while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM
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Re: while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM
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Hopper wasn't that important, either, though.
03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM
- 888 Views