OK, I've just finished the Book in a mammoth reading session, after waiting 3 weeks for Amazon to deliver it to me, but that's the curse of living in a Third World country, I guess.
I hear you.
Mesaana TRADED Graendal an angreal? I find that very unlikely, and out of character. Does that mean Mesaana had an angreal herself? All evidence up to now suggested the contrary.
Mesaana found one between LoC and when she gave it to Graendal. I still don't think that the Forsaken would easily use an angreal unless they really needed to. They're all stronger than 99% of channelers.
So Moiraine without the ivory bracelet angreal is too weak to pass the Accepted test, but with it she is stronger than she was before? Also, the Foxes said it was such a strong angreal that it bordered on being a sa'angreal. Moiraine was at least 3 times as strong as Dagian, while she must now be less than half as strong as Dagian, if she cannot even pass the Accepted test.
I think Moiraine might be as strong as Siuan is, which would be a nice twist.
That means that Lanfear's angreal at the Docks must have increased her strength AT LEAST six fold, and more like 8 or ten fold. No wonder she was toying with Rand in that battle.
I don't think you can extrapolate things like that, and I definitely don't think RJ thought of it either. However, by all accounts Lanfear has a very strong angreal. As I said to another poster, Rand said she was getting stronger and stronger as the battle went on. She could probably have drawn even more saidar through the thing until she smothered him.
Tying off gateways:
I've read Sanderson's reply to the issue of tying off gateways, but frankly, his answer avoided the issue and talked about the logistical implications of Ashaman being able to tie off gateways necessitating that they not be able to do it.
Frankly, that's a non-answer. Rand has tied off gateways and Sammael has tied of gateways. It is clearly possible, and fairly easy, to tie off gateways. There is no logical explanation that has been given as yet as to why Grady and Neald are not able to tie off gateways. Sanderson needs to up his game here, or admit that he has changed the rules to suit his plot.
I've read Sanderson's reply to the issue of tying off gateways, but frankly, his answer avoided the issue and talked about the logistical implications of Ashaman being able to tie off gateways necessitating that they not be able to do it.
Frankly, that's a non-answer. Rand has tied off gateways and Sammael has tied of gateways. It is clearly possible, and fairly easy, to tie off gateways. There is no logical explanation that has been given as yet as to why Grady and Neald are not able to tie off gateways. Sanderson needs to up his game here, or admit that he has changed the rules to suit his plot.
Agreed. While it takes some stress to make a gateway, you merely need to tie it off with a decent knot. It's idiotic not to do it and then complain about exhaustion.
Interfering with the creation of gateways on a battlefield:
Was the Dreamspike what RJ was talking about when he said that there are ways to interfere with the creation of gateways into a battlefield zone, and ways to interfere with the interference etc?
I recall that we had an almighty debate about that one, with me stating that it HAD to be some kind of ward that prevented the creation of gateways into a specific AREA, while the doubters insisted that all RJ meant was that one could attack an individual gateway weave as it was forming and try to slash it before it opened. The Dreamspike at least proved my suggestion was the correct one.
However, I do not believe the Dreamspike is the ONLY way of doing this. I would think that there must be a One Power weave that can replicate this effect, and that it can be actively countered and counter-countered, if you get my meaning. Hence RJ's statement that the battle would be fought on many levels, on an Age of Legends battlefield.
Was the Dreamspike what RJ was talking about when he said that there are ways to interfere with the creation of gateways into a battlefield zone, and ways to interfere with the interference etc?
I recall that we had an almighty debate about that one, with me stating that it HAD to be some kind of ward that prevented the creation of gateways into a specific AREA, while the doubters insisted that all RJ meant was that one could attack an individual gateway weave as it was forming and try to slash it before it opened. The Dreamspike at least proved my suggestion was the correct one.
However, I do not believe the Dreamspike is the ONLY way of doing this. I would think that there must be a One Power weave that can replicate this effect, and that it can be actively countered and counter-countered, if you get my meaning. Hence RJ's statement that the battle would be fought on many levels, on an Age of Legends battlefield.
I immediately thought about that debate, and I think it is what RJ referred to, but on a larger scale as you suggest. It's strange that it has to work from TAR, but considering its a weave I think LTT or someone could ward a smaller area against travelling.
I've got a lot more to say, but let's keep this first post short, and get some responses. Man, we have so much new material to work with. It is only AFTER completing the book that the real fun actually starts!
No Demandred facts? Very disappointing Shannow. We had some nice new facts about him.
Moiraine says explicitly that she is now too weak to pass the Accepted test. That means she is MUCH weaker than Daigian.
And she also explicitly states that with the angreal, she is stronger than she was before. So therefore the angreal HAS to multipy her strength at least 6 times, and probably more like 8-10 times, if Daigian is one third of Moiraine's former strength, but still most likely twice as strong as a novice who cannot even pass the Accepted test.
This is bolstered by the Ealfin's statement that the angreal is almost strong enough to be a sa'angreal. We've seen that Alivia's angreal most likely multiplies strength by 4 or more times.
So if the bracelet angreal is borderline sa'angreal a multiplication of 6 times is easily achievable.
Regarding Demandred, I was disappointed that there was so little on him in this book, but I have picked up a few tidbits in the book, from twitter and signing reports surrounding the release, and by logical deduction, given his absence from most of the book.
Rest assured, I will dedicate a separate thread to him entirely!
This message last edited by Shannow on 28/11/2010 at 08:19:01 PM
Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 28/11/2010 08:48:35 AM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 28/11/2010 12:31:13 PM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 28/11/2010 05:48:42 PM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 28/11/2010 05:57:34 PM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 28/11/2010 06:11:38 PM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 29/11/2010 09:08:30 AM
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Not to mention that Mesaana was tortured by SH without being mindtrapped *NM*
- 02/12/2010 05:57:15 PM
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- 28/11/2010 06:07:47 PM
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Re:
- 28/11/2010 08:16:59 PM
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- 28/11/2010 08:16:59 PM
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Re: Finished ToM - immediate Forsaken and One Power issues (angreal, gateways, Forsaken facts)
- 29/11/2010 12:08:39 AM
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yeah, it seems to make more sense that they would have general channeling fatigue
- 30/11/2010 05:54:39 AM
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