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Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
So, let's get this straight. Is there any area where the Shadow's plans have actually succeeded, a Lightside leading character has actually died, or even failed to come together with the love of his/her life? To summarise:

Graendal (the impossible to outwit Forsaken) fails to kill Perrin through a convoluted plot that makes no sense and is overcomplicated to the 100th degree. This while a simple reversed gateway weave would have allowed her to Travel into Perrin's tent, assasinate both him and Faile in less than 5 seconds, and leave again without breaking a sweat. Instead, she is now mindtrapped.

Fail.

Mesaana, despite being nothing out of the ordinary in TAR (and far, far from Moghedien or Lanfear's level of mastery in the Dreamworld) decides to take on Egwene (a natural born Dreamer) in the one area where Egwene can actually stand up to her and is defeated.

Fail.

Perrin and Slayer's long awaited battle takes on virtually the exact same incredibly unlikely pattern as Nynaeve and Moghedien's Dreamworld help to Rand during the battle against Rahvin, with Perrin "just happening" to arrive at the White Tower of all places at the exact same moment when Egwene just happens to be battling Mesaana in TAR, of all places. And this leads to Mesaana's defeat. Fail again.

Berelain meets Galad and falls in love to live happily ever after.

Morgase marries Tallanvor to live happily ever after.

Moiraine is rescued and marries Thom to live happily ever after.

Perrin and Faile make up to live happily ever after. (I at least thought Graendal would hurt Perrin by killing Faile, but nope, that would be too close to an actual success for the Shadow.)

Egwene ( 20 year old girl) once again politically outwits 100 year old Sitters and strengthens her hold over the Tower while at the same time getting full control over Aes Sedai interactions with Rand.

Elayne - despite being pregnant and less than 20 years old, manages to build a vast arsenal of cannons, outwits all political opponents, and strengthens her army immensely by various political maneuvres and machinations.

Despite overwhelming Trolloc armies and assaults, they struggle to even defeat one minor city in a borderland nation with most of its army away in Far Madding. This while every major Lightside character involved in the battle survives, as usual.

The bottomline is that despite promises of things growing darker in the last books, it seems to me that every plot involving lightside protagonists of import ends up with the lightsiders succeeding without exception, and more importantly AT NO COST to themselves.

Essentially ToM can be reduced to the following equation:

Ligthside gains = Graendal defeated, Mesaana dead, Arangar dead, Slayer defeated, Andor strengtened, Whitecloaks converted, Prophet dead, cannons built, White Tower unified and stabilized, Moiraine saved, all lightsiders married off to their various soulmates.

Shadow gains: One dead wolf.

(And by the way, Hopper's death was actually more heartbreaking to me than if Faile, Egwene, Elayne and Perrin had all died. But, emotionally troubling as it was, it hardly advanced the cause of Shadow much.

Seems like the history of failure for the Forsaken in particular continues unabated.

All that is left is quickly wrapping up the Last Battle (which we've already been shown is a sure thing, thanks to Aviendha's visions), and Bob's your uncle.



This message last edited by Shannow on 28/11/2010 at 03:52:03 PM
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Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM 2611 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM 1287 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM 1195 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM 1175 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM 1191 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything - 29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM 1150 Views
I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM 1041 Views
*facepalm* - good point, not sure how I missed that. *NM* - 29/11/2010 03:12:00 AM 618 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM 1041 Views
Prophecy never said she would be angry at the time, - 29/11/2010 11:36:53 AM 1085 Views
lol true, gg *NM* - 29/11/2010 11:52:54 AM 588 Views
Aviendha's vision doesn't automatically mean the Light will win - 28/11/2010 05:32:56 PM 1432 Views
She doesn't even see that. The arches just show a possibility. - 29/11/2010 07:12:05 PM 981 Views
Indeed - 28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM 1100 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM 1291 Views
i think most people feel that way - 29/11/2010 09:06:44 AM 1124 Views
I agree with you - 05/12/2010 05:13:38 PM 923 Views
Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM 1059 Views
I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_- - 29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM 1048 Views
Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM 1358 Views
I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 02:16:45 AM 1006 Views
Re: I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 09:44:05 AM 968 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM 1318 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM 1030 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM 1049 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes - 29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM 1010 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself - 29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM 1070 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed - 30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM 960 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM 1081 Views
Re: Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 12:05:44 PM 973 Views
he makes no mention of the Heroes. - 30/11/2010 10:42:13 PM 1070 Views
They did get another thing right - 29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM 1062 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him. - 29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM 1016 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome - 29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM 1137 Views
I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though. - 29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM 1013 Views
The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable - 29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM 1156 Views
You, good sir, are - 30/11/2010 06:53:49 PM 946 Views
I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 29/11/2010 06:50:34 PM 936 Views
Re: I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 30/11/2010 01:47:27 AM 1067 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace" - 29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM 1184 Views
+1 *NM* - 29/11/2010 07:18:13 PM 549 Views
it is. I love it anyways, though - 29/11/2010 07:23:24 PM 976 Views
War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM 1387 Views
Doublethink for the win! *NM* - 30/11/2010 07:35:20 AM 574 Views
Re: War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM 1006 Views
I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT - 30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM 994 Views
Please tell me what drugs you're on - 01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM 1098 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm - 01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM 1011 Views
You are absolutely wrong. - 02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM 977 Views
You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it. - 02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM 1134 Views
No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit. - 02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM 904 Views
No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY. - 02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM 820 Views
It's really very simple. - 04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM 1083 Views
mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange - 05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM 1019 Views
I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone. - 06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM 1128 Views
No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend. - 01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM 921 Views
You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them. - 02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM 967 Views
I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that - 02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM 826 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF - 02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM 1021 Views
That's a load of crap... - 02/12/2010 06:03:13 AM 1139 Views
Sure - 01/12/2010 01:30:03 AM 940 Views
Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM 933 Views
Re: Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM 1068 Views
I agree with everything. - 30/11/2010 01:37:11 PM 1078 Views
Hopper's death... oh god... - 01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM 1175 Views
while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM 961 Views
Re: while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM 1082 Views
Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM 896 Views
Re: Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 03:10:54 PM 930 Views
It would be awesome if it were, though. - 03/12/2010 04:41:42 PM 1057 Views
Re: It would be awesome if it were, though. - 04/12/2010 09:54:09 PM 1036 Views
- 05/12/2010 07:07:44 AM 888 Views

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