Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
So, let's get this straight. Is there any area where the Shadow's plans have actually succeeded, a Lightside leading character has actually died, or even failed to come together with the love of his/her life? To summarise:
Graendal (the impossible to outwit Forsaken) fails to kill Perrin through a convoluted plot that makes no sense and is overcomplicated to the 100th degree. This while a simple reversed gateway weave would have allowed her to Travel into Perrin's tent, assasinate both him and Faile in less than 5 seconds, and leave again without breaking a sweat. Instead, she is now mindtrapped.
Fail.
Mesaana, despite being nothing out of the ordinary in TAR (and far, far from Moghedien or Lanfear's level of mastery in the Dreamworld) decides to take on Egwene (a natural born Dreamer) in the one area where Egwene can actually stand up to her and is defeated.
Fail.
Perrin and Slayer's long awaited battle takes on virtually the exact same incredibly unlikely pattern as Nynaeve and Moghedien's Dreamworld help to Rand during the battle against Rahvin, with Perrin "just happening" to arrive at the White Tower of all places at the exact same moment when Egwene just happens to be battling Mesaana in TAR, of all places. And this leads to Mesaana's defeat. Fail again.
Berelain meets Galad and falls in love to live happily ever after.
Morgase marries Tallanvor to live happily ever after.
Moiraine is rescued and marries Thom to live happily ever after.
Perrin and Faile make up to live happily ever after. (I at least thought Graendal would hurt Perrin by killing Faile, but nope, that would be too close to an actual success for the Shadow.)
Egwene ( 20 year old girl) once again politically outwits 100 year old Sitters and strengthens her hold over the Tower while at the same time getting full control over Aes Sedai interactions with Rand.
Elayne - despite being pregnant and less than 20 years old, manages to build a vast arsenal of cannons, outwits all political opponents, and strengthens her army immensely by various political maneuvres and machinations.
Despite overwhelming Trolloc armies and assaults, they struggle to even defeat one minor city in a borderland nation with most of its army away in Far Madding. This while every major Lightside character involved in the battle survives, as usual.
The bottomline is that despite promises of things growing darker in the last books, it seems to me that every plot involving lightside protagonists of import ends up with the lightsiders succeeding without exception, and more importantly AT NO COST to themselves.
Essentially ToM can be reduced to the following equation:
Ligthside gains = Graendal defeated, Mesaana dead, Arangar dead, Slayer defeated, Andor strengtened, Whitecloaks converted, Prophet dead, cannons built, White Tower unified and stabilized, Moiraine saved, all lightsiders married off to their various soulmates.
Shadow gains: One dead wolf.
(And by the way, Hopper's death was actually more heartbreaking to me than if Faile, Egwene, Elayne and Perrin had all died. But, emotionally troubling as it was, it hardly advanced the cause of Shadow much.
Seems like the history of failure for the Forsaken in particular continues unabated.
All that is left is quickly wrapping up the Last Battle (which we've already been shown is a sure thing, thanks to Aviendha's visions), and Bob's your uncle.
Graendal (the impossible to outwit Forsaken) fails to kill Perrin through a convoluted plot that makes no sense and is overcomplicated to the 100th degree. This while a simple reversed gateway weave would have allowed her to Travel into Perrin's tent, assasinate both him and Faile in less than 5 seconds, and leave again without breaking a sweat. Instead, she is now mindtrapped.
Fail.
Mesaana, despite being nothing out of the ordinary in TAR (and far, far from Moghedien or Lanfear's level of mastery in the Dreamworld) decides to take on Egwene (a natural born Dreamer) in the one area where Egwene can actually stand up to her and is defeated.
Fail.
Perrin and Slayer's long awaited battle takes on virtually the exact same incredibly unlikely pattern as Nynaeve and Moghedien's Dreamworld help to Rand during the battle against Rahvin, with Perrin "just happening" to arrive at the White Tower of all places at the exact same moment when Egwene just happens to be battling Mesaana in TAR, of all places. And this leads to Mesaana's defeat. Fail again.
Berelain meets Galad and falls in love to live happily ever after.
Morgase marries Tallanvor to live happily ever after.
Moiraine is rescued and marries Thom to live happily ever after.
Perrin and Faile make up to live happily ever after. (I at least thought Graendal would hurt Perrin by killing Faile, but nope, that would be too close to an actual success for the Shadow.)
Egwene ( 20 year old girl) once again politically outwits 100 year old Sitters and strengthens her hold over the Tower while at the same time getting full control over Aes Sedai interactions with Rand.
Elayne - despite being pregnant and less than 20 years old, manages to build a vast arsenal of cannons, outwits all political opponents, and strengthens her army immensely by various political maneuvres and machinations.
Despite overwhelming Trolloc armies and assaults, they struggle to even defeat one minor city in a borderland nation with most of its army away in Far Madding. This while every major Lightside character involved in the battle survives, as usual.
The bottomline is that despite promises of things growing darker in the last books, it seems to me that every plot involving lightside protagonists of import ends up with the lightsiders succeeding without exception, and more importantly AT NO COST to themselves.
Essentially ToM can be reduced to the following equation:
Ligthside gains = Graendal defeated, Mesaana dead, Arangar dead, Slayer defeated, Andor strengtened, Whitecloaks converted, Prophet dead, cannons built, White Tower unified and stabilized, Moiraine saved, all lightsiders married off to their various soulmates.
Shadow gains: One dead wolf.
(And by the way, Hopper's death was actually more heartbreaking to me than if Faile, Egwene, Elayne and Perrin had all died. But, emotionally troubling as it was, it hardly advanced the cause of Shadow much.
Seems like the history of failure for the Forsaken in particular continues unabated.
All that is left is quickly wrapping up the Last Battle (which we've already been shown is a sure thing, thanks to Aviendha's visions), and Bob's your uncle.
This message last edited by Shannow on 28/11/2010 at 03:52:03 PM
Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM
- 1184 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM
- 1163 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM
- 1181 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything
29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM
- 1143 Views
I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM
- 1031 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass
29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM
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Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:43:46 PM
- 1213 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot...
28/11/2010 04:49:23 PM
- 1137 Views
Indeed
28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM
- 1092 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM
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Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks
29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM
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And in the interest of fairness, SH should've been all up in Osangar's intimate business
29/11/2010 11:34:21 PM
- 1091 Views
Agreed. The series is formulaic and predictable, and even I expected a few more twists.
28/11/2010 07:47:10 PM
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I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_-
29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM
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Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM
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Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM
- 1019 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed
29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM
- 1037 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes
29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM
- 1002 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself
29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM
- 1061 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed
30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM
- 948 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves?
30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM
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They did get another thing right
29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM
- 1052 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him.
29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM
- 1008 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome
29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM
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I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though.
29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM
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The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM
- 1149 Views
Re: The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable
29/11/2010 09:50:26 AM
- 1134 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace"
29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM
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War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM
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Re: War and Peace was very thematic
30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM
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I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT
30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM
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I've always thought of this series (and fantasy in general) are a bit like Aesop's Fables
30/11/2010 10:44:09 PM
- 922 Views
Please tell me what drugs you're on
01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM
- 1083 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm
01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM
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You are absolutely wrong.
02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM
- 966 Views
You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it.
02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
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No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit.
02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM
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No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY.
02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM
- 814 Views
It's really very simple.
04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM
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mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange
05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM
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I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone.
06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM
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No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend.
01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM
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You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them.
02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM
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I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that
02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM
- 819 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF
02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM
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Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM
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Re: Black Tower
30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM
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No, the worst case scenario is that the entire tower becomes 13+13'd and fights for the Shadow
30/11/2010 04:03:07 AM
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Hopper's death... oh god...
01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM
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while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM
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Re: while i miss hopper
02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM
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Hopper wasn't that important, either, though.
03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM
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