Re: Just finished - comments and questions (spoilers) - Edit 1
Before modification by DomA at 18/11/2010 06:25:15 AM
Overall, it was a great set-up book and I feel pretty good about AMoL. Here are some comments and questions:
1. Great intro with Graendal, escaping Rand's balefire, but at the end of the day, what was the point? She, like so many other Forsaken, just fizzled out.
1. Great intro with Graendal, escaping Rand's balefire, but at the end of the day, what was the point? She, like so many other Forsaken, just fizzled out.
I suspect part of the point was not to give Rand a victory when what he did (balefiring a small city-sized fortress and hundreds of people) was sheer madness. So, he's not accomplished his goal, and know mistakingly believes Graendal dead, which isn't good.
2. Also, finding out that Graendal killed Asmo was a big let-down. Just a random, pointless act
Yeah... well.. that was obvious immediately from the death scene itself. Asmodean didn't know even a second before he did it that he would open that door in a corridor. Forcibly, he surprised someone by coincidence, someone who would kill him on sight, a Chosen. Most were eliminated later, leaving Graendal, for whom we could find motives for having been in the palace that day, and Mesaana about whom we could find none.
I thought the way it was revealed was OK, not great. I was a bit disappointed Graendal had no inner reaction to what Moridin accused her of, where she could have briefly recalled the circumstances etc. This wasn't important in the series, but as RJ had made a big deal about the fact the readers made him reconsider and he would tell us the solution, I found the lack of any details a let down. The glossary entry was a bit "meh". Harriet or Brandon said they added it there to put an end to debates, but they obviously don't know the Etzels of this world.
Yeah... well.. that was obvious immediately from the death scene itself. Asmodean didn't know even a second before he did it that he would open that door in a corridor. Forcibly, he surprised someone by coincidence, someone who would kill him on sight, a Chosen. Most were eliminated later, leaving Graendal, for whom we could find motives for having been in the palace that day, and Mesaana about whom we could find none.
I thought the way it was revealed was OK, not great. I was a bit disappointed Graendal had no inner reaction to what Moridin accused her of, where she could have briefly recalled the circumstances etc. This wasn't important in the series, but as RJ had made a big deal about the fact the readers made him reconsider and he would tell us the solution, I found the lack of any details a let down. The glossary entry was a bit "meh". Harriet or Brandon said they added it there to put an end to debates, but they obviously don't know the Etzels of this world.
3. Regarding Perrin.....what was the payoff with all of his chapters and wolf-dream stuff? I assume Slayer is still running around.
*shrugs*. I think Brandon stretched these chapters too much, because he had the two "shorter" storylines to make a full book of, and had used the two more elaborate and intricate ones for TGS. His Perrin wasn't bad at all, but IMO Brandon made him return too much to an earlier stage of his thinking, somewhat discarding some of the changes in his personality that had occured during Faile's absence.
The pay off still was good, the way Perrin accepted himself, and became a real leader was interesting, forged his hammer, saved his foes and made them real allies at a last, a satisfying pre-final act ending for a main character.
I think by putting them out of place and in TOM, Brandon ruined much of their purpose and created much confusion for nothing. This happened before Rand met the Tinkers, went to DM and got all of LTT's memories and an epiphany about his role and beliefs.
This was a future in Rand had persisted and impose a peace with the Seanchan, with the bigger issues underneath left unresolved. This was the mistake of Hawkwing, whose Empire and enforced peace collapsed into a disastrous War etc.
This was also a future in which Rand and the Aiel had not patched things up, and he discarded them after use, the sort of future they were heading for, in TGS.
This was finally a future in which the Aiel had not changed at all, and remained warriors.
This clearly belonged in TGS, before Rand's epiphany, when Aviendha's visit to Rhuidean occured. It was supposed to make things even more desperate and dark, and set up the upcoming resolution.
Putting them at the end of TOM doesn't make sense to me, and it's worse for lack of chronological pointers. It's as if Brandon had decided to change the meaning, and pretends this future is still a possibility.
That defies logic. "New Rand" has already started to patch things up with the Aiel, in Ebou Dar he started seeing the Seanchan differently already, he was reminded of the Da'shain Aiel and their history... then there's DM. Who really believes LTT, who knows so much about the Da'shain and loved them, will abandon the Aiel now?
Aviendha must puzzle things out and convince the Aiel of what awaits them. As for finding a new purpose for them post TG... the greatest gift LTT could make the Aiel is to teach them their concept of "honor and obligation" comes from their oaths to the Way of the Leaf, their obligations, and from the honor and respect that were theirs for the great services they rendered to the AS and society. Aviendha's beliefs are wrong. The Da'shain were shaped into warriors to atone their sins by fighting in TG. They were shaped into warriors so they would become stronger and harder and survive until they could fulfill their real purpose, as the Rhuidean AS had finally understood. Aviendha saw that vision, so she could bring the Aiel back on the path to the Way of the Leaf. She's halfway there, now it's up to LTT to tell her "you don't have to remain warriors, you know, there's another path you can take". The Tinkers are already gathered, Rand is already wearing a cloak they gave him all the time. Once the Seanchan move north, the Tinkers near Ebou Bar will be left as food for the Shadowspawn in the area... Rand will save them, and bring them back to the Aiel... His gift to them.
I think we'll find out this isn't and never was the right question. Demandred is busy where Rand won't come for him. IMO, he's been preparing the LB, joining various groups and creating himself armies....and planning strategy. IMO, the BT is just the tip of the iceberg. Rand made a serious mistake to put Taim in charge of training his men instead of having him follow him around as follower (which had its own pitfalls, mind you) and Demandred seized the opportunity. My hunch is that Demandred used Taim's recruiting efforts to hide his own. Most of the DF in whom Taim's teams found the ability where sent to a secret base of Demanded, probably hidden far in the north. I think Demandred left Taim a skeleton crew of real DF to accomplish his various infiltrating and corrupting tasks, and also all the "non DF, but shows potential to agree to join the Shadow" candidates, which I guess Demanded didn't want to risk bringing to his hidden army's location(s).
Now the end game is coming. Demandred has Taim turn or kill all Lightsiders at the BT, had his headquarter/palace built and so on. He's soon to come to his HQ to lead the LB. I think his initial wave of attack will attempt to capture back all the "powerbases" of his dead rivals, ie: Andor, Illian, Tear from Rand. He will add Cairhien and maybe Rhuidean, as the idea, IMO, is to seize the whole of Rand's Empire in one blow, then force the final confrontation in the field with him. I'm pretty sure he also planned things out to seize defensible Wayagtates and Portal Stones. This will connect his powerbases to the Blight and the Shadowspawn reinforcements. Soon I think the major cities will become more or less fortified corals for Trollocs and other beasties, the people enslaved or used as fodder. The less Rand shows inclination for a face-off in the field, the more he sends "his lackeys" against Demandred instead (Mat, the great captains, Logain) or even refuse the bait, the more insulted and furious Demandred will become, and perhaps the more the atrocities will rise, to force Rand to join the battle.
Lanfear's long dead, killed by the Finns. There's no redemption possible for Lanfear. Mierin's rotten to the core. She was even before she joined the Shadow.
We're merely seeing the next gambit of Moridin, after Graendal's failure. He no doubts feels the new Rand and must be extremely angry, and so Shai'tan must be as well. It seems he decided to play on the not fully clear feelings LTT had for Mierin. It sounds like we don't know yet the full story between those two - how LTT felt about her joining the Shadow, what he thought of her involvement in the drilling. Does he (foolishly) blames himself in part for how Mierin turned out? That might be what Moridin and Shai'tan have now decided to try to exploit.
Personally, I think Moridin will unleash Cyndane on Rand's three women. It would hurt Rand far more if she's the one who does that, not Graendal. He might unleash Moghedien on Nynaeve too, she's becoming way, way too dangerous to the Shadow. It's not just "madness" she found out how to heal... it's not even really madness, which in the AOL could not be heal... She cured the symptionsby cleansing Naeff's mind of their cause. Nynaeve has rather begun to find a way to heal from Shai'tan's touch, to cleanse...... first with the madness of tainted men... it's obviously only the beginning... This will play an important role at SG, mark my words...
She might be the one whose Talent can prevent a new counterstroke from tainting the True Source. This could also mean she'll find a way to "heal" from Shai'tan's touch people who've been turned to the Shadow, continuing on her string of "never been done in the AOL" premieres (I'm starting to believe in the AOL Nynaeve would have been one of the most famous, innovative and revered AS of the Age. There would probably have been big savant treatises teaching her groundbreaking approach to "the impossible", the importance of will, faith and plain refusal that something can't be done in inventing new ways for saidar to accomplish what you will).
I'm beginning to suspect also that Rand, when he will be "dead but alive", won't be normally dead. He will be alive, his thread not yet cut, his apparent death will be unnatural and come from Shai'tan ties to him, sucking his soul away to the Lord of the Grave, killing the physical body. Nynaeve will be able to cut that link, eventually, and thus miraculously "resurrect" Rand. "Real" death, natural death in the Pattern, your lifethread cut etc. cannot be healed, and I really don't think there's any way to do it., aside from balefire in some cases, which is "unnatural" and immoral, as you have to take a life to get back another, making you no better than the original murderer you killed to resurrect his victim.
*shrugs*. I think Brandon stretched these chapters too much, because he had the two "shorter" storylines to make a full book of, and had used the two more elaborate and intricate ones for TGS. His Perrin wasn't bad at all, but IMO Brandon made him return too much to an earlier stage of his thinking, somewhat discarding some of the changes in his personality that had occured during Faile's absence.
The pay off still was good, the way Perrin accepted himself, and became a real leader was interesting, forged his hammer, saved his foes and made them real allies at a last, a satisfying pre-final act ending for a main character.
4. Was there any point to Aviendha's chapters? Serious question.
I think by putting them out of place and in TOM, Brandon ruined much of their purpose and created much confusion for nothing. This happened before Rand met the Tinkers, went to DM and got all of LTT's memories and an epiphany about his role and beliefs.
This was a future in Rand had persisted and impose a peace with the Seanchan, with the bigger issues underneath left unresolved. This was the mistake of Hawkwing, whose Empire and enforced peace collapsed into a disastrous War etc.
This was also a future in which Rand and the Aiel had not patched things up, and he discarded them after use, the sort of future they were heading for, in TGS.
This was finally a future in which the Aiel had not changed at all, and remained warriors.
This clearly belonged in TGS, before Rand's epiphany, when Aviendha's visit to Rhuidean occured. It was supposed to make things even more desperate and dark, and set up the upcoming resolution.
Putting them at the end of TOM doesn't make sense to me, and it's worse for lack of chronological pointers. It's as if Brandon had decided to change the meaning, and pretends this future is still a possibility.
That defies logic. "New Rand" has already started to patch things up with the Aiel, in Ebou Dar he started seeing the Seanchan differently already, he was reminded of the Da'shain Aiel and their history... then there's DM. Who really believes LTT, who knows so much about the Da'shain and loved them, will abandon the Aiel now?
Aviendha must puzzle things out and convince the Aiel of what awaits them. As for finding a new purpose for them post TG... the greatest gift LTT could make the Aiel is to teach them their concept of "honor and obligation" comes from their oaths to the Way of the Leaf, their obligations, and from the honor and respect that were theirs for the great services they rendered to the AS and society. Aviendha's beliefs are wrong. The Da'shain were shaped into warriors to atone their sins by fighting in TG. They were shaped into warriors so they would become stronger and harder and survive until they could fulfill their real purpose, as the Rhuidean AS had finally understood. Aviendha saw that vision, so she could bring the Aiel back on the path to the Way of the Leaf. She's halfway there, now it's up to LTT to tell her "you don't have to remain warriors, you know, there's another path you can take". The Tinkers are already gathered, Rand is already wearing a cloak they gave him all the time. Once the Seanchan move north, the Tinkers near Ebou Bar will be left as food for the Shadowspawn in the area... Rand will save them, and bring them back to the Aiel... His gift to them.
5. Where is hell is Demamdred?
I think we'll find out this isn't and never was the right question. Demandred is busy where Rand won't come for him. IMO, he's been preparing the LB, joining various groups and creating himself armies....and planning strategy. IMO, the BT is just the tip of the iceberg. Rand made a serious mistake to put Taim in charge of training his men instead of having him follow him around as follower (which had its own pitfalls, mind you) and Demandred seized the opportunity. My hunch is that Demandred used Taim's recruiting efforts to hide his own. Most of the DF in whom Taim's teams found the ability where sent to a secret base of Demanded, probably hidden far in the north. I think Demandred left Taim a skeleton crew of real DF to accomplish his various infiltrating and corrupting tasks, and also all the "non DF, but shows potential to agree to join the Shadow" candidates, which I guess Demanded didn't want to risk bringing to his hidden army's location(s).
Now the end game is coming. Demandred has Taim turn or kill all Lightsiders at the BT, had his headquarter/palace built and so on. He's soon to come to his HQ to lead the LB. I think his initial wave of attack will attempt to capture back all the "powerbases" of his dead rivals, ie: Andor, Illian, Tear from Rand. He will add Cairhien and maybe Rhuidean, as the idea, IMO, is to seize the whole of Rand's Empire in one blow, then force the final confrontation in the field with him. I'm pretty sure he also planned things out to seize defensible Wayagtates and Portal Stones. This will connect his powerbases to the Blight and the Shadowspawn reinforcements. Soon I think the major cities will become more or less fortified corals for Trollocs and other beasties, the people enslaved or used as fodder. The less Rand shows inclination for a face-off in the field, the more he sends "his lackeys" against Demandred instead (Mat, the great captains, Logain) or even refuse the bait, the more insulted and furious Demandred will become, and perhaps the more the atrocities will rise, to force Rand to join the battle.
6. What was up with Lanfear? Is she dead or did we see the effect of the mindtrap? Is Rand going to save/redeem her?
Lanfear's long dead, killed by the Finns. There's no redemption possible for Lanfear. Mierin's rotten to the core. She was even before she joined the Shadow.
We're merely seeing the next gambit of Moridin, after Graendal's failure. He no doubts feels the new Rand and must be extremely angry, and so Shai'tan must be as well. It seems he decided to play on the not fully clear feelings LTT had for Mierin. It sounds like we don't know yet the full story between those two - how LTT felt about her joining the Shadow, what he thought of her involvement in the drilling. Does he (foolishly) blames himself in part for how Mierin turned out? That might be what Moridin and Shai'tan have now decided to try to exploit.
Personally, I think Moridin will unleash Cyndane on Rand's three women. It would hurt Rand far more if she's the one who does that, not Graendal. He might unleash Moghedien on Nynaeve too, she's becoming way, way too dangerous to the Shadow. It's not just "madness" she found out how to heal... it's not even really madness, which in the AOL could not be heal... She cured the symptionsby cleansing Naeff's mind of their cause. Nynaeve has rather begun to find a way to heal from Shai'tan's touch, to cleanse...... first with the madness of tainted men... it's obviously only the beginning... This will play an important role at SG, mark my words...
She might be the one whose Talent can prevent a new counterstroke from tainting the True Source. This could also mean she'll find a way to "heal" from Shai'tan's touch people who've been turned to the Shadow, continuing on her string of "never been done in the AOL" premieres (I'm starting to believe in the AOL Nynaeve would have been one of the most famous, innovative and revered AS of the Age. There would probably have been big savant treatises teaching her groundbreaking approach to "the impossible", the importance of will, faith and plain refusal that something can't be done in inventing new ways for saidar to accomplish what you will).I'm beginning to suspect also that Rand, when he will be "dead but alive", won't be normally dead. He will be alive, his thread not yet cut, his apparent death will be unnatural and come from Shai'tan ties to him, sucking his soul away to the Lord of the Grave, killing the physical body. Nynaeve will be able to cut that link, eventually, and thus miraculously "resurrect" Rand. "Real" death, natural death in the Pattern, your lifethread cut etc. cannot be healed, and I really don't think there's any way to do it., aside from balefire in some cases, which is "unnatural" and immoral, as you have to take a life to get back another, making you no better than the original murderer you killed to resurrect his victim.