AOL training & Rand's powers as the DR are 2 different things IMHO - Edit 4
Before modification by RugbyPlayingAshaman at 16/11/2010 06:11:03 PM
Umm, what? What exactly are you talking about with Lanfear? If you are referring to to confrontation with Rand where Moiraine saves him, then Lanfear did very little. She was already IN the encampment, interrogating one of the darkfriends. When she learned that Rand had slept with Aviendha, she went berserk and blew up the wagon. When the Aiel rushed her, she simply created a ring of fire that burned maybe a couple hundred Aiel or so, before Rand blocked her with a barrier. I think she might even have had her angreal already at that point, the one Moiraine now has which the finns claimed was so strong as to be nearly sa'angreal.
To compare that to Rand singlehandedly destroying an entire ARMY of 10K-100K trollocs is silly. Lanfear did not come CLOSE to anything Rand did.
As for Semirhage, I admit that killing the entire imperial family was a neat trick, but it would not have required any significant skill/strength on her part. She could simply have used traveling to reach the empress, reversing and inverting to hide the fact that she was a channeler and masks of mirror to look like someone else. Then she could have struck quickly to kill her fast, and fled via gateway while everyone was still in shock. Again nowhere close to what Rand did. Infact there are now modern Aes Sedai who might have been able to replicate what Semirhage did if they were not constrained by the oaths.
To compare that to Rand singlehandedly destroying an entire ARMY of 10K-100K trollocs is silly. Lanfear did not come CLOSE to anything Rand did.
As for Semirhage, I admit that killing the entire imperial family was a neat trick, but it would not have required any significant skill/strength on her part. She could simply have used traveling to reach the empress, reversing and inverting to hide the fact that she was a channeler and masks of mirror to look like someone else. Then she could have struck quickly to kill her fast, and fled via gateway while everyone was still in shock. Again nowhere close to what Rand did. Infact there are now modern Aes Sedai who might have been able to replicate what Semirhage did if they were not constrained by the oaths.
No, she didn't have the angreal when she first attacked. Lanfear was described as creating a firestorm or a raging inferno that was centered on her,yes, but she also created arrows of flame that fell from the air killing many of the Aiel at the same time as the Shadowspawn attacked from the flank. As I said, she had to walk through the camp, killing everybody in her way to make it to the wagon. I didn't say Lanfear came close to what Rand did - I said she killed hundreds or thousands of Aiel in seconds or a few minutes. My point was Lanfear appeared and wove in such a way that she was killing hundreds of opponents very quickly (i.e. she used techniques that used her skill & strength to the utmost destructive potential). If you read my post, I don't compare the numbers nor do I say she came close to what he did - my point was that the Forsaken know techniques that allow them to destroy very large forces very quickly. Compared to the Aes Sedai of the White Tower and the Ashaman, this is a level of lethality we've never seen demonstrated by anyone except Rand. If Lanfear could be thought of as an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile and Rand was an atom bomb, both are very destructive and powerful, but the latter is much more powerful. That doesn't make the former any less potent.
In regards to Semirhage, she not only had to kill the Empress, but she also had to eliminate every possible member of the Blood that could take her place. Tuon implied that she had multiple siblings and in addition, family members, extended family members and members of the Blood who were raised to high station but not in the direct line of succession. In addition, there would have been hundreds of Deathwatch Guards, sul'dam/damane pairs and other forces guarding the Empress. The situation that was described to us was that this wasn't a surgical assassination - there seemed to have been a mass-murder of all the highest ranking nobles, leading to the collapse of centralized authority.
I don't deny that the AoL channelers were more skilled, but they could not come close to doing what Rand did unaided and alone. We actually saw this with LTT, when he took over during the trolloc attack at the mansion and required the assistance of a lot of other Aes Sedai and Asha'man to win. I think it was even said there that if Logain had not brought all the men with him, that attack could well have worked.
And then there is the fact that none of the forsaken have decided to go and blow up Rand's armies of Aiel and such. And the fact that what Rand did caused darkfriends to see a mysterious light and go mad as a result. I think that was an important clue that something more than ordinary average chnaneling was happening. AoLers are tough and skilled, but not THAT tough. Rand has grown to become something more now. That was hinted all throughout the book with all the strange things he can now do.
And then there is the fact that none of the forsaken have decided to go and blow up Rand's armies of Aiel and such. And the fact that what Rand did caused darkfriends to see a mysterious light and go mad as a result. I think that was an important clue that something more than ordinary average chnaneling was happening. AoLers are tough and skilled, but not THAT tough. Rand has grown to become something more now. That was hinted all throughout the book with all the strange things he can now do.
That is an unfair comparison - Rand didn't have all of the memories from his past life at the mansion; he was relying entirely on his own knowledge and a few tricks that bubbled up from his memories. The Rand that fought at the mansion was a different Rand from the one in TGS. And we haven't seen any Forsaken actually in a combat situation requiring them to destroy his army - in fact, if you recall their reactions to his ground forces, some of them were surprised, but noone expressed that his military forces were anything but an inconvenience. The only Forsaken that went directly against Rands' forces was a strategist noted for his defensive tactics, and the other Forsaken that encountered Rand on the battlefield ignored his forces for the most part and concentrated on him. With the exception of Lanfear, and the implications of Semirhages' rampage, we simply haven't seen what they can do against conventional forces.
IMHO the skill and training of the channelers from the Age of Legends and Rand's powers as the Dragon Reborn are different but they build on one another. Admittedly all I said in regards to his DR powers was that they inspired the Lightsiders, but this is because I don't think these Lightside Powers are combative - I think the combat weaves he used came from his expertise with the One Power but the halo of light surrounding him and the feelings he aroused in the onlookers was a thing of the Creator. He may have used this connection to become a living conduit of the One Power, thus rather than his strength being the determining factor for how many weaves you could perform, the only limit that applied was how long he could keep this up before exhausting himself. Combining his DR powers with his channeling expertise from his AOL training is what made him so powerful in that scene. So if a Forsaken saw that, I think they would have been as amazed as the onlooking Ashaman were, and I