I agree. This was my perception, and the dream issue is actually simpler than you seem to think
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 10/11/2010 06:11:33 AM
We know that dreams can be entered. The Wise Ones contact others this way and Egwene does the same.
However, ToM also provides evidence that, maybe, other's dreams can be entered and controlled.
No question about it. The issue up to this point against a character doing this is that the one PoV character is very new to this business and not yet skilled enough to handle herself in another's dream. The person who is actually dreaming has the ability to control the dream, even if most never realize it. Egwene entered Rhuarc's dream back in tFoH, but lost control quickly and found herself changing into his perception of her before Amys pulled her out. The only other time entering a dream has come up was her encounters with Gawyn, where the strength of his feelings towards her is too much for her to control or resist once she is inside his dream. For an experienced Dreamwalker, entering another's dream should not be a problem, particularly if they have no experience or training in dealing with such invasions. One such example was Rand's dream where Lanfear joined him for a swim and then Asmodean popped in to chide her for wasting his time. Later Lanfear reveals that it had been Rand's dream, not a fake dream she brought him to, as is implied Ba'alzamon did to the ta'veren in EotW. However, ToM also provides evidence that, maybe, other's dreams can be entered and controlled.
The experience with Nakomi could easily have been sent by the Wise Ones for these reasons, as well as the ones you give.
Rand's dream at the end, even with the wards he places around him when he sleeps, is definitely odd. He dreams of Lanfear being tortured.
We know that Lanfear lives on as Cyndane (and why she is weaker now), mind trapped by Moridin. Lanfear (along with most of the other Forsaken Girls) claimed TAR has her domain. She never had an encounter while one of the Good Guys was dream walking, so we have no real comparison of her TAR strength/willpower.
But it would appear that she can enter Rand's dreams, through his wards, and alter at least a small part of his dream to suit her needs.
Even without the wards, don't forget about his warder bonds. Since there is nothing to break or unravel with those (as Lanfear suggested she could do), he should be even more protected. We know that Lanfear lives on as Cyndane (and why she is weaker now), mind trapped by Moridin. Lanfear (along with most of the other Forsaken Girls) claimed TAR has her domain. She never had an encounter while one of the Good Guys was dream walking, so we have no real comparison of her TAR strength/willpower.
But it would appear that she can enter Rand's dreams, through his wards, and alter at least a small part of his dream to suit her needs.
So it is possible that she or someone else did this to Avi. I don't think this was a forsaken as the conversation (coupled with what Avi saw at Rhuidean) seemed to be about the future of the Aiel and finding the Aiel a new purpose. I am inclined to believe that it was Wise One for this reason.
I don't think the Wise Ones taught Egwene everything they know, and controlling another's dreams might be a Talent. We know that the Wise One's (especially the four whom Rand first met) purpose with Rand is to make sure that they keep the largest number of them alive after the Last Battle. The Wise One's also sent Avi to Rhuidean.
We know that Wise One's went through Rhuidean Twice. We don't know what happens the second time they go through.
I don't think the Wise Ones taught Egwene everything they know, and controlling another's dreams might be a Talent. We know that the Wise One's (especially the four whom Rand first met) purpose with Rand is to make sure that they keep the largest number of them alive after the Last Battle. The Wise One's also sent Avi to Rhuidean.
We know that Wise One's went through Rhuidean Twice. We don't know what happens the second time they go through.
They take the same test a clan chief candidate takes, just as Rand did in tSR and Aviendha did off-camera in ToM.
But the Wise One's do. I believe that a Wise One (one of the first four Rand met, the one who couldn't channel...can't remember her name)
Bairis actually Nakomi and met Avi because they know (espeicially if the timing is before the Randpiphany) Rand will not take much of a suggestion from the Wise Ones, but he might listen to Avi because he loves her...and they have witnessed Min being able to convince him of certain things.
Actually, that's a bit over-motivated. From day one, or actually before, since it is standard operating procedure for Wise Ones to do with an unmarried chief, the plan was to get Rand an Aiel wife. That was why they told Aviendha to hang around and listen to him (the teaching thing was an afterthought developed later when it became plain that her presence was suspicious given her obvious disdain for him), and what Sorilea meant when she told Cadsuane that she expected Rand to take what was offered if it looked pleasant. They wanted Aviendha to hang around Rand and pay attention to him so he would find her attractive, and they could nudge her if she was slow to reciprocate and soon the car'a'carn is not think of the Aiel as a strange and alien people, but rather he is thinking of his Aiel wife and children when he has to make decisions that will affect the fate of their people. By this point, anything they do regarding Rand and Aviendha is simply following a very old plan, and nothing to do with suddenly adjusting to the particular circumstances where only a loved one can affect him. In fact, from various clues we receive about Aviendha and the Wise Ones' perceptions of Rand, aside from the fact that they fell in love in spite of everything, Rand and Aviendha have unwittingly done all in their power to screw that plan up royally - rather than a plan they embarked upon recently, based on the circumstances with Rand's emotional state and seizing upon an opportunity afforded them by Aviendha's relationship, it was actually a generic plan decided upon before they knew the particular individuals involved, which was nearly ruined by the personal developments and peculiar circumstances of the individuals involved.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
The more I think about Nakomi, the more (spoilers and a theory)
10/11/2010 03:34:26 AM
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They see their past through the crystal columns on their second trip.
10/11/2010 04:49:09 AM
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That whole scene was so weird though.
11/11/2010 03:40:14 AM
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Yes, I'm not saying I have any confidence in the idea, it's just a thought that came to me.
11/11/2010 04:00:05 AM
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I thought they saw their past on the first trip.
10/11/2010 05:42:23 AM
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No, they go through the ring ter'angreal on their first trip.
10/11/2010 06:07:46 AM
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That's how Aviendha remembered arriving for her second trip from her visions on the first trip. *NM*
10/11/2010 06:13:35 AM
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I agree. This was my perception, and the dream issue is actually simpler than you seem to think
10/11/2010 06:11:33 AM
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Even the Wise Ones can't control others' dreams
11/11/2010 03:35:09 AM
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