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You are seriously mis-perceiving a number of things. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 10/11/2010 01:30:47 AM
There's really no evidence that Egwene grew up as a spoiled brat just because her father is the mayor and owner of the inn. Her life has not been better than any of the other main characters.
Which is absolutely unrelated to anything I said about her. It has to do with perceptions of her place in the world and her her understanding of her interactions with others was shaped.

If anything, Egwene has been begrudged by years of bad treatment as Nynaeve's apprentice that led to a feeling of desperation to prove her worth, considering Nynaeve never saw it. Not a single person in Emonds Field liked Nynaeve, its no surprise her own apprentice felt unloved.
Where on EARTH did you get the impression she suffered in any way? Why would they pick on Nynaeve's occasional student just because Nynaeve was abrasive? As for Nynaeve herself, her favoritism and coddling of Egwene in the early books of the series is blatant(before she had to spend extended periods of time on the road with the little witch and no Trolloc pursuit to divert your mind to more pleasant things than Egwene's personality).

IMO Egwene should have been a lesbian, or at least uninterested in relationships much like Moiraine/Siuan are. I've never thought that the Amyrlin is a good candidate for a normal life, and her relationship with Gawyn is forced and a little perverse with its radical aspects of control. Even Lan said that it would take a strong man to marry an Aes Sedai, and to marry the Amyrlin, even worse. Egwene shouldn't be involved with anyone - she's got a permanent high-stress political position, and no time for another mindless Trakand.
Lan was trying to duck the issue politely. It was his way of saying "It's not you, it's me." That crap about being too weak to tolerate an Aes Sedai wife is the pap the sisters tell each other to reassure themselves that they are not disturbingly alienated from humanity and are the problem themselves.

She's the Amyrlin... what would Siuan Sanche do if that happened to her?
Oh, like that's an excuse? That's part of her problem - where on earth is it indicated, except in the standard-issue Aes Sedai superiority complex, that the Amyrlin should rest on a plane above other mortals? It's not like she's the Seanchan Empress, with the weight of half the world on her shoulders. She runs a corporation of little more than 1,000 employees. It's a big job, but any world-weighty responsibilities are the fault of past usurpations of power. There is no reason why she needs to enforce such discipline, and speaks ill of her character that she is threatened by such behavior (and don't give me that "Hall needs to see her as a grown-up" crap. She legally had dictatorial powers before the Two Rivers girls ever came to the camp).

Nynaeve/Elayne weren't tutored by Siuan.
Point in their favor. At BEST, Siuan is an expert in the grossly flawed status quo. This is supposed to be the dawn of a new age, and the world is already changed beyond going back, just by things Egwene, Nynaeve & Elayne have witnessed. Where on earth do any of them get off taking the opinion of one rather inexperienced and historically unsuccessful sister as gospel?

Flawed as she is, Siuan was still an Amyrlin and had knowledge of the secret history of the Tower, as well as a greater understanding of its ethos and customs, which she heavily imprinted on Egwene. Egwene shouldn't even consider Nynaeve's opinion on these issues, base philosophers that they are... Nynaeve probably had an epiphany in her tent that lasted all of ten minutes surrounding the subject, whereas Egwene has been considering all aspects of the Tower for months. People forget that being the uber-channeler queen of the series doesn't make Nynaeve the source of all wisdom.
No, she has that whether or not she ever could channel. Don't go mistaking me for you - my opinions of a character's mind or any other attribute are absolutely unrelated to their channeling prowess. As it is, Nynaeve's intuitive insight has taken her a lot further than any mental qualities of Egwene, who mostly ruminates about herself, when she can be bothered with introspection at all.
She's got a lions heart but she's never been an intellectual.
As if Egwene is! Egwene has not anything remotely resembling an education, and all the tutoring on practical politics does not make her an intellectual. Gareth Bryne's study of warfare gives him a better claim to that appellation than Egwene's "what now, Siuan" conversations.

Egwene's made devious plans that would leave Nynaeve on the floor gasping if she tried to comprehend them.
On WHAT do you base that?! Her plans have not been remotely devious. In addition, almost all of Nynaeve's experience has been in the real world, which is orders of magnitude more complex than a closed system like White Tower politics. You are comparing a football coach's game strategies to a stock market forecast based on environmental, political & consumer trends for the next two quarters.

Egwene could pick much better advisors than Nynaeve/Elayne. Nynaeve has always been impulsive and illogical, and Elayne is almost singular in her thought processes surrounding Andor. Egwene is the only one who consistently thinks about the White Tower, and she has some close advisors and the Hall who are much better equipped than two women who spend all their time fighting the Shadow. Let them play their part, and let Egwene play hers.
That is absolutely absurd! Do you even realize what you are saying? You are saying that political expertise is the highest kind of advise and trumps all assessments of right and wrong, whereas people with realistic priorities based on real experiences are bad advisors for what someone should do on a moral issue. No one has ever suggested she take their advise on how to best retain power in the White Tower (aside from Egwene herself - if asking Nynaeve how to deal with the Hall is stupid, well, it's only Egwene who has entertained that notion) because neither of them gives a rat's ass as long as their friend is doing well and the Tower is not causing Rand problems.
It is a serious indicator of your own warped priorities or perceptions that on a moral or practical issue, your assessment of the proper course of action or someone's opinion thereof is entirely shaded by the political utility of that person's advise! The issue under discussion was the moral ramifications of using compulsion that has drastic and adverse effects on a life span! We ban industries & public utilities that do less harm than the Oath Rod on shakier evidence! What the FUCK does the political accumen of Nynaeve or Elayne have to do with such a discussion?!

She outgrew them almost as soon as she climbed onto Bela. Its not unlikely she resents them for the simple-minded existence they tried to suppress her with when she knew she had potential. In only a few years she became the youngest and most powerful woman in the world (except maybe for Tuon). Emonds Field never created a greater woman. The thought of her going back is toxic to the mind.
And you call her the greatest woman based solely on a rank she has not earned, which she received based entirely on her association with other Two Rivers denizens. Eldrene did more harm to the Shadow. Her parents have been disproportionately more dangerous against the Shadow. Egwene's accomplishments consist primarily of sheer blind luck or standing on the shoulders of giants. Where Egwene, a natural Dreamwalker, can face a second-tier Forsaken on her own most advantageous footing, where she has been taught (and is being assisted) by women who claim superiority over the Forsaken in the specific arena in which they are fighting, and win because she's too stupid to understand the truth of her relationship to the Tower; Nynaeve has to challenge the mistress of Tel'Aran'Rhiod and not only defeat her on her own ground, while trying to stay there with a ter'angreal she can barely use, but make a significant contribution to the defeat of a second Forsaken and turn Moghedian into a resource that Egwene herself would rely on. Nynaeve divines the secret identity of her Forsaken, a mistress of concealment and guile, and lets her know just to terrorize her. Egwene learns the Forsaken's identity because she lucked out in getting Mesaana trapped into a duel of wills. Taking her single greatest success, which Nynaeve outdoes on more than one level, how can you claim she is the greatest woman the Two Rivers ever produced? She is not even the greatest of her village or her generation! All she is the best at is swindling the highest rank. Without the Amyrlin Seat, Egwene has no accomplishments to her name that anyone else could not have handled had they attention to spare. Nynaeve outstrips her, without even the crutch of a "bully pulpit" to aid her own efforts.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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"She knew Egwene wanted Cairhien..." - 05/11/2010 03:22:29 AM 2402 Views
Do you have a reference that we can look at? - 05/11/2010 03:24:39 AM 918 Views
Chapter 45 - A Reunion, Page 669 - 05/11/2010 03:59:25 AM 1104 Views
Ok, now I've checked it. - 05/11/2010 04:07:20 AM 968 Views
Re: "She knew Egwene wanted Cairhien..." - 05/11/2010 03:49:16 AM 1114 Views
except... - 05/11/2010 03:49:45 AM 972 Views
Re: except... - 05/11/2010 04:05:00 AM 974 Views
Re: except... - 05/11/2010 05:35:05 AM 896 Views
Re: except... - 05/11/2010 04:06:01 AM 953 Views
We all know Egwene is going to save the day while getting everything she wants and more - 05/11/2010 04:14:55 AM 1056 Views
Egwene also needs to talk to her mother and father - 05/11/2010 04:25:43 AM 873 Views
Re: Egwene also needs to talk to her mother and father - 05/11/2010 01:53:17 PM 883 Views
Re: Egwene also needs to talk to her mother and father - 05/11/2010 02:00:37 PM 953 Views
Re: Egwene also needs to talk to her mother and father - 05/11/2010 02:04:47 PM 870 Views
she's the youngest child - 07/11/2010 07:51:20 PM 781 Views
why? - 05/11/2010 03:10:39 PM 979 Views
Re: why? - 05/11/2010 04:23:16 PM 938 Views
That didn't sound like madman's ramblings at all.... - 05/11/2010 05:00:59 PM 1005 Views
Re: That didn't sound like madman's ramblings at all.... - 05/11/2010 11:10:46 PM 882 Views
Hail Amrlyin Palpategwene - 06/11/2010 02:05:09 AM 949 Views
They're the ones who raised her this way! That's the last thing she needs. - 06/11/2010 03:38:17 PM 948 Views
Um, can we assume her parents raised her that way? - 08/11/2010 04:57:05 AM 802 Views
She's a short, female, youngest child of influential parents. Arrogance would come naturally to her. - 09/11/2010 02:08:29 AM 898 Views
Huh - 09/11/2010 07:56:15 AM 920 Views
Wow. What the fuck did your parents do to you? *NM* - 09/11/2010 03:35:07 PM 451 Views
- 09/11/2010 06:14:30 PM 660 Views
I try to avoid projecting myself onto fictional characters. Or real people. - 09/11/2010 06:45:14 PM 811 Views
too bad - 09/11/2010 08:20:04 PM 794 Views
Why don't you compare her to a summer's day while you're at it? *NM* - 09/11/2010 07:45:20 PM 384 Views
well... - 09/11/2010 08:18:08 PM 728 Views
I'm teasing you because you lay it on a little thick sometimes *NM* - 10/11/2010 01:10:39 AM 513 Views
You are seriously mis-perceiving a number of things. - 10/11/2010 01:30:47 AM 975 Views
So? - 05/11/2010 09:53:22 AM 850 Views
Re: So? - 05/11/2010 07:59:12 PM 881 Views
Re: So? - 06/11/2010 09:06:49 AM 768 Views
She didn't say that. You changed the wording and read it without context. - 05/11/2010 03:29:27 PM 987 Views
So? - 05/11/2010 04:04:54 PM 823 Views
The engima that is Egwene - 06/11/2010 01:41:43 AM 846 Views
I wonder if... - 06/11/2010 05:17:45 AM 831 Views
You might have paid more attention than me when reading - 06/11/2010 06:50:46 AM 823 Views
The reason rand didn't tell Egwene about why he needs to break the seals is simple - 22/06/2011 10:49:25 PM 879 Views
That's the problem with Elayne that has emerged. - 06/11/2010 03:31:41 PM 1016 Views
Or, you know, she's being cleverer than you give her credit for... - 06/11/2010 04:45:10 PM 878 Views
This is the problem with rulers - what is smart for them equals increasing their power. Which is bad - 06/11/2010 08:40:19 PM 831 Views
So fragmentation is the reply? - 06/11/2010 09:59:47 PM 819 Views
Checks and balances IS diluting power. - 09/11/2010 02:16:18 AM 849 Views
The Andoran houses should ask one question of Elayne - and remove her if she answers wrongly - 08/11/2010 02:03:08 AM 893 Views
Hear, hear. - 09/11/2010 02:18:49 AM 876 Views
Maybe it's typo - 08/11/2010 06:38:26 PM 1049 Views
Yes, I'm pretty certain it is. - 09/11/2010 09:00:32 AM 790 Views
Agreed - 09/11/2010 07:05:09 PM 730 Views
i thought it was a typo too *NM* - 10/11/2010 09:11:10 AM 482 Views

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