Re: Thoughts about Aviendha's test & the relationship implications
lilltempest Send a noteboard - 05/11/2010 04:42:35 PM
- - Now we have some hints about the "something odd" Min foresaw for Aviendha's children. They ARE quadruplets, so all those other theories involving adoption and surrogate motherhood, and Loial's paternity (no joke. berniekosarisgod, from wotmania actually proposed that to me in person) are shot down. The two candidates for the "odd" aspect are their superchanneler status, though IMO, that does not seem exactly right for the context. The other possibility supports the long-standing notion that Rand will impregnate her in a different body. This is suggested by one of the boys (and btw, an even gender division in multiple births of real characters' children always strikes me as a lame cop-out) having dark hair "from their wetlander side." The sole wetlander ancestry of Rand's and Aviendha's children is through their paternal grandmother, who was described as golden-haired. Given that Rand and Aviendha are both described as red-haired, any dark-haired recessives are as likely to come from her as him )and other Aiel are known to have dark hair, however rare) which means there must be some OTHER reason to blame the dark hair on Rand's side. Such as his having Moridin's (or Logain's or whoever's) dark-haired body when putting it to Aviendha...
I didn't care for that, personally. But I think the entire "dark-haired" thing was a bone that was thrown to the body-swap theorists.
- Another oddity I though was in the relationship of Oncala to Talana. The former cites the alliance between their families (despite the apparent personal animosity between the two women) as the result of their grandmothers being first-sisters. Yet, both are the blood of the Dragon, so should not the fact of their MOTHERS being ACTUAL sisters mean something to them? Even under Aiel rules, I find it hard to believe that being father-sisters is outweighed by an adoptive relationship between their mothers. Even if taken as seriously as a blood relationship, is mother-sister really closer than father-sister? Elayne said as much back in tSR, but it was in the context of trying to describe how confused she was by the myriad terminology, so I didn't take seriously the absurd notion that a cousin is closer blood kin than a half-sibling.
What is more troubling in some sense for the actual characters is the absolute lack of personal connection their children have to them in these visions of the future. While it is easy to think of circumstances where a person might be closer to a cousin than father's child by a different mother, few to none of those situations feature the father's involvement in the children's lives. This suggests Rand would have played a minimal role at best in his children's upbringing, as Aviendha's children only seem to consider each other as family. Despite Elayne's adoption by Aviendha and insemination by a significant figure to the Aiel, and friendship with Wise Ones, her children are not a factor in the family discussion among Rand's Aiel kids. Even if Rand was not in the picture, I find it hard to believe that the relationship Elayne and Aviendha have spent so much time, effort and tears to forge will dissolve so easily that their children are virtual strangers to one another, but that same friendship is significant enough to hold their hostile broods together for two generations. So this points to Elayne and/or Aviendha leaving the picture as well. So much for the speculation about them all staying together for centuries.
What is more troubling in some sense for the actual characters is the absolute lack of personal connection their children have to them in these visions of the future. While it is easy to think of circumstances where a person might be closer to a cousin than father's child by a different mother, few to none of those situations feature the father's involvement in the children's lives. This suggests Rand would have played a minimal role at best in his children's upbringing, as Aviendha's children only seem to consider each other as family. Despite Elayne's adoption by Aviendha and insemination by a significant figure to the Aiel, and friendship with Wise Ones, her children are not a factor in the family discussion among Rand's Aiel kids. Even if Rand was not in the picture, I find it hard to believe that the relationship Elayne and Aviendha have spent so much time, effort and tears to forge will dissolve so easily that their children are virtual strangers to one another, but that same friendship is significant enough to hold their hostile broods together for two generations. So this points to Elayne and/or Aviendha leaving the picture as well. So much for the speculation about them all staying together for centuries.
I didn't find that unbelievable at all. Elayne is Aes Sedai and her first priority is the White Tower. Aviendha is a Wise One, and Wise Ones do not want to be forced to accept White Tower authority. Given Egwene's manipulation of the Wise Ones and Sea Folk (and her thoughts to their comment that they don't want to be chained to the WT and she thought she'd use "lace" instead), it's quite apparent that she's going to try to force them to accept her - and the Hall's - authority over them. That won't sit well with any of them, including Aviendha. If all that goes down, Elayne would side with Egwene and the WT, because that's who she is, which would lead to a falling out between her and Aviendha. So I don't see it as being impossible that their children end up being antagonistic toward each other. In fact, I see it as likely unless the Wise Ones and Aviendha have a sudden change of heart about being the WT's "subjects".
- Rand's behavior in this book does nothing to change that impression in regard to his children either. Perhaps he is simply not in it as much, but even Dark Rand seemed more human and accessible than the transfigured demi-god drifting through ToM. What's more, you would think that his regaining his humanity, especially given the role love was supposed to have played in his rehabilitation, he would have sought to reconnect with Elayne at least, even if he is waiting on Aviendha's return from Rhuidean. Instead, in both of Sanderson's books, you get the impression of Elayne and Aviendha increasingly becoming afterthoughts in the relationships. He introduces Min to his father, he hangs out with her all the time and he remains practically the last person in the world to be ignorant of the impending birth of his children. Despite Elayne's repeated refusal to confirm their paternity, astonishing numbers of people know of it (probably more PoV characters know Rand is the father as of ToM, than knew she was pregnant as of KoD). If not for the warder bonds, Elayne's and Aviendha's feelings on the matter, a case could be made, IMO, from Rand's attitude and behavior over the last book or so, that those relationships are not long to last. SO WHAT THE HELL WAS THE POINT?!?! As far as I am concerned, unless he's dead and had a serious relationship with their mother, a man is not a child's father unless he raises it. Rand's paternity of children is rather pointless to the story, and irrelevant to the character if they are just going to be some kids who resulted from his primary love interest's incredibly casual attitude regarding him hooking up with old flirtations before dying or ascending or whatever his fate will be. So far, the most significance Rand's relationship with Elayne or Aviendha has had to the story and character development was as a source of angst in the middle books, and the political ramifications and personal inconvenience the pregnancy has caused Elayne. Possibly the Warder bond, though he is just about the only Warder in the series not to have any mention made of the effect on him. If he needed to have a bond to survive a few crises, there was Alanna. The expository role it has played regarding his feelings and mental state has been minimal at best, and declined with Sanderson's involvement. So, again, why the bother with these apparently second-class relationships with no long-term future?
I think Rand's relationship with Elayne and Aviendha served two purposes - it got Aviendha and Elayne to be friendly (which may possibly head off trouble in the future when Egwene forces the WO's to accept her authority over them) and it gave someone loyal to Egwene power over him, power which may very well be used against him in the near future. I keep thinking of Egwene's dream where Elayne forces him to his knees - she may very well force him to knell to Egwene or to accept being one of her Elayne's own subjects so she can force him to Egwene's will. And, actually, I just thought of the best purpose the bond served - it got him bonded to Min. He never would've done that on his own and he needed to be bonded to her for a number of reasons. I know you don't like her, but she has provided something to him that neither Elayne nor Aviendha ever would - unconditional love and compassion.
I've never bought his relationship with Elayne. She is flat out callous about him dying and really doesn't care one way or the other if he survives. She cares more for Aviendha than for Rand, and the same can be said of Aviendha herself - Elayne is far more important to her than Rand. Rand, to both of them, is merely someone to use and they don't care to see him. Aviendha had a great deal of potential, I thought, but that has been crapped away. Instead, she and Elayne will turn out to be obstacles for him...Elayne because she insists on always siding with Egwene against him and Aviendha because, after seeing what she did in the glass columns, will be convinced that Rand must be stopped from making any decisions himself. I wish both of them would just die.
Thoughts about Aviendha's test & the relationship implications
- 03/11/2010 06:26:14 PM
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Re: Thoughts about Aviendha's test & the relationship implications
- 05/11/2010 04:42:35 PM
898 Views