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I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. Lanfear Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.

Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.

It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.

But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!



You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.


Graendal or Semirhage could bridge a strength gap, as long as the person they are up against has less than average skill or less than average battle prowess/instincts. For example, if Graendal or Semirhage fight me, I'd kill them.

Moghedien and I didn't fight back against Graendal last time b/c we were ordered not to by Shaidar Haran and Moridin. If I wanted to, I would have kicked Graendal's arse.



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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1682 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 855 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 909 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 716 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 817 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 882 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 883 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 778 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 814 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 741 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 797 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 722 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 696 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 715 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 687 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 825 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 423 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 698 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 821 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 751 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 676 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 693 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1227 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 714 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 728 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 743 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 614 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 691 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 826 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 846 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 694 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 433 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 404 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 333 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 386 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 768 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 612 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 714 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 516 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 831 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 669 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 363 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 390 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 679 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 890 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 831 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 646 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 728 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 596 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 738 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 613 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 746 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 718 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 670 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1004 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 687 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 630 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 690 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 783 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 737 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 722 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 707 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 681 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 670 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 661 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 647 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 667 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 741 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 530 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 629 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 658 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 690 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 691 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 520 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 567 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 645 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 661 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 638 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 729 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 645 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 788 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 685 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 839 Views

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