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Take your own advice, please Mik Send a noteboard - 28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM
You might want to start making sense... it helps in debates, you know.
Take your own advice, please. Don't mind me for making mincemeat of your oh-so sensible contribution:

First off... have you even considered that one reason Alanna is not being stilled, executed, or whatever is because of the effect that will have on Rand?
Hello Miss sensibility! Thanks for this wonderful and smart contribution. You're doing the same thing darius is doing, but you are even worse at it.
Alanna could -simply- be ordered to release her "Warder"..I mean rape-victim. She could simply be held in prison.
Don't mind me sniggering a little bit now.

The reason why Alanna is out there, is because it's so darn handy that all the Aes Sedai now have a permanent leash from the rape-victim to the miss rapist.

Have you considered the mitigating factor that she was a little mentally unhinged from the death of her Warder (which we know for a fact causes the Aes Sedai to feel extreme grief more than people would generally feel for someone close to them dying)? None of these really make it right, but these factors do play into why the Aes Sedai are not as harsh as they would typically have been.
Again, taking darius his road of finding petty excuses. But again, you're doing an even worse job then he was. She mentally -raped- someone. All the Aes Sedai think so.

How would -you- feel being mentally raped and the excuse for keeping the purpetrator around near you, is because that poor rapist just lost his mama and his little doggy. Boo-hoo!

These are silly excuses! What's next? We wait for Siuan to hang Novices, because she lost Aldric ans she's feeling really, really sad? Awww. Poor Siuan *pat on the head*.

Kidnapping a King/Rand: You do realize that the woman who did these things had 2/3rds of the AS not supporting her, and a third of them in open Rebellion, right? Sure, these weren't the specific reasons for all of them rebelling, but they certainly were the reasons for Egwene. And all the Rebels worried that Elaida would mishandle Rand.

And not -one- Aes Sedai did a goddamn thing about it. Not one. Elaida got away with both without so much a scratch!
Even worse, Stephanos was kept in the Tower!

The only reason Elaida was able to get away with kidnapping Mattin Stephaneos is because Rand took over Illian, and Elaida could claim she was protecting the king. Had she not had even that justification, you can be sure the Aes Sedai would have had more issues with the act.
I'm going to say this nicely; sorry, but you're really wrong here. The whole Tower knew Stephaneos was held captive for all the wrong reasons. You might want to re-read Egwene's encounter with Stephaneos and see how the Red Sister panics who tags along (as a prison guard) when Egwene tells Stephaneos the truth. The Tower knew. Instead of punishing Elaida for nothing short of an act of war, they -helped- her keep the sharade up, to protect the Tower's interests & "reputation" (what was left of it at that point)


None of these, of course, match what the Whitecloaks do. For one, they may not have kidnapped a king, but they have certainly usurped the authority of one (Airlon). They also, incidentally, keep a Queen in their stronghold against her will (lets not even go into her being raped and tortured). And far from kidnapping the Dragon Reborn, they actually wanted to kill him! And no, Cannoli's moronic statement that "they thought they were right, so they are right" makes no sense, here or anywhere else.
Oh my lord. This isn't -about- a contest if the Whitecloaks are worse or better then Aes Sedai! This is about showing that -like the Whitecloaks- the Aes Sedai have their fair share of atrocities that remain unpunished, used in an appalling way or hidden away in a secret Depository.

It's not about exactly matching atrocities. It's about both organisations having members who commit certain atrocities and getting away with it!

Just. shed. those. pink. glasses.


Look at how the Whitecloaks vs. the Aes Sedai handle the Two Rivers. The two AS present help the villagers defend themselves from Trollocs. The Whitecloaks terrorize them, and do not give aid even when the situation is dire enough that women and children have to enter the fray! Show me an Aes Sedai who sits by while there are Shadowspawn attacking village folk and then we'll talk.
You're setting up a Strawman argument! I don't have to. Take your own advice.
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'

Death dances in my footsteps....
This message last edited by Mik on 28/10/2010 at 07:32:24 PM
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The Children of the Light and the White Tower Cannoli - 20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM 2367 Views
Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower moratcorlm - 20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM 1037 Views
The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Cannoli - 20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM 1156 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM 1077 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Cannoli - 21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM 1053 Views
Hehe. Touché! *NM* Mik - 21/10/2010 03:05:02 PM 566 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Datakim - 21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM 886 Views
And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers. Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM 955 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM 983 Views
And there is no indication of how far that went. Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM 847 Views
"The question" as opposed to "questioning" moratcorlm - 24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM 907 Views
And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM* Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM 596 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. rAndy aL - 24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM 1099 Views
But that explains their actions Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:41:50 AM 896 Views
Don't turn this around on the Aes Sedai rAndy aL - 27/10/2010 10:53:27 AM 1040 Views
The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye... fionwe1987 - 24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM 884 Views
Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind. Cannoli - 25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM 1061 Views
Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad? Sidious - 21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM 991 Views
Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series? Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM 975 Views
Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds darius_sedai - 23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM 1001 Views
So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends? Cannoli - 25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM 943 Views
Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM 890 Views
Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:.. Mik - 25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM 953 Views
Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:.. Sidious - 25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM 1078 Views
Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion! darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM 819 Views
Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion! Mik - 27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM 981 Views
You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS darius_sedai - 27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM 903 Views
No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities. Mik - 28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM 863 Views
okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series? darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM 887 Views
That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot. Mik - 28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM 958 Views
Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot. fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM 837 Views
Strawman argument, Sid. Mik - 27/10/2010 11:35:40 AM 899 Views
To echo Darius... fionwe1987 - 23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM 933 Views
Re: To echo Darius... Mik - 25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM 872 Views
Go look up the definition of the word atrocity darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM 889 Views
Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM* Knightscape - 26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM 557 Views
You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the darius_sedai - 26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM 1165 Views
Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!! Knightscape - 26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM 857 Views
Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless" Mik - 27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM 849 Views
the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village darius_sedai - 27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM 890 Views
READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds Mik - 28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM 984 Views
darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM 842 Views
You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them. Mik - 28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM 919 Views
dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM 877 Views
Complete the thought... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM 806 Views
seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that! darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM 943 Views
Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM* Mik - 28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM 512 Views
again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM 899 Views
Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs Mik - 28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM 1093 Views
What wars did they start? fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 808 Views
You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan. Mik - 28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM 849 Views
Wow... I'm sooo Insulted! fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 09:23:41 PM 870 Views
fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM 942 Views
Take your own advice, please Mik - 28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM 857 Views
Re: Take your own advice, please Sidious - 28/10/2010 07:44:59 PM 803 Views
Their own organisation calls it rape. Simple. Mik - 28/10/2010 08:26:49 PM 871 Views
Re: Take your own advice, please fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 09:18:17 PM 1010 Views
Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM* Tom - 20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM 557 Views
"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM 889 Views
Puh-leeze right back at you: Mik - 21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM 871 Views
The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM 872 Views
It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly. Mik - 25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM 714 Views
I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM* newyorkersedai - 25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM 511 Views
Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case Cannoli - 21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM 1043 Views
Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM* newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM 481 Views
The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM 929 Views
Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM* newyorkersedai - 23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM 502 Views
Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know... Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM 1013 Views
You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM* newyorkersedai - 25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM 516 Views
fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM 1038 Views
Not so sure about that moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM 933 Views
Re: Not so sure about that fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 03:57:34 AM 961 Views
the city is closed to WC Foxhead - 21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM 1001 Views
Re: the city is closed to WC moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM 837 Views
But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM 461 Views
But they aren't in disguise moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM 871 Views
They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise. fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM 809 Views
Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise. moratcorlm - 22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM 906 Views
Don't be ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 22/10/2010 04:52:55 PM 870 Views
No different moratcorlm - 23/10/2010 02:26:24 PM 948 Views
CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia.. Mik - 21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM 964 Views
Here is to hoping Egwene can get her head out of her ass. Hot Pie - 21/10/2010 10:30:10 AM 928 Views
Now hang on a minute! ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM 1089 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM 979 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! rAndy aL - 21/10/2010 11:28:55 PM 987 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! moratcorlm - 22/10/2010 01:08:14 AM 940 Views
IMO, the main difference between Egwene & Galad is... Mik - 21/10/2010 12:36:53 PM 1013 Views
it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations Zaphod - 21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM 1041 Views
You! Macharius - 22/10/2010 02:28:07 PM 959 Views
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